SHIP: RE: not so long response (was Long Post Re: R/HYule Ball

[firoza10 at yahoo.com]

No: HPFGUIDX 13801

Hello again!

Penny, thank you for the compliment on my logic :-)

Penny wrote:
> Now as an expert in subtext, I am sure that Penny agrees that
> the subtext of 'something going on' is the implication that Hermione
> and Ron have romantic feelings.
>
The sarcasm directed at me personally is really pretty unnecessary.
I've never held myself out as an "expert" in subtextual 
interpretation.
It's that sort of remark that tends to put people off the shipping
debates.  You did keep most of your post in a light-hearted vein, so
I'll just ignore it but wanted to point out that we could all do 
without
sarcastic remarks directed at a specific person.  I'll address the
substance of the above in a later post.

I apologize if my statement that you are an 'expert in subtext' came 
across as sarcasm, it was NOT meant as such :-) What I meant to say 
was that it seems to me (please correct me if I am wrong) that you 
are a vocal proponent for subtext (at least that has been my 
impression), so I thought therefore you would be pick up on 
the 'something' implication quickly and so I would not have to go 
into too much detail regarding the subtext of 'something'. That is 
all, no sarcasm intended, I leave that to Ron :-)

Thank you for correcting my interpretatin of FITD!

Penny wrote:
FITD doesn't support H/H as much as it detracts from R/H.  If it 
takes 2 people to make a relationship work and Herminone likes Harry 
and not Ron (as FITD posits), then R/H won't occur.  FITD does not 
then logically dictate that H/H will follow since Harry has as yet 
never expressed any interest in Hermione. <snip>
My belief is that H/H *could* follow later because I see the two
characters as being very well-suited for one another eventually.  If
Hermione expresses her interest in him and once he's eventually 
defeated Voldy, well .... who's to say what might happen later on 
when they're adults & out of school?

I will have to disagree with the assumption that FITD detracts from 
R/H for the same reason that Penny sees H/H *could* happen later, 
i.e., suitability of the couples. We have three people, Ron, 
Hermione, and Harry. R/H fans see R/H because they see a MUTUAL 
attraction between Ron and Hermione, not just Hermione liking Ron or 
vice versa. Penny (and perhaps other H/H fans as well) see Hermione 
liking Harry but *could* see H/H following later based on the belief 
that 'the two characters as being very well-suited for one another 
eventually'. R/H fans see the two characters being very well-suited 
for one another now AND eventually <vgb>. So, if Ron likes Hermione 
and Hermione likes Harry, and Harry likes someone else/no one yet, 
that to me does not detract from R/H because R/H-er's see a MUTUAL 
attraction, not just Ron liking Hermione. If it takes 2 people to 
make a relationship to work and Hermione likes Harry and not Ron, 
then I agree R/H will not occur :-) So, we are back to square one 
again, since R/H-er's see a MUTUAL attraction at this point in time, 
while Penny and possibly other H/H fans, see a FUTURE relationship 
based on how compatible Harry and Hermione are as a couple in their 
view, so I will just leave it at that :-)

Penny wrote:
I didn't interpret Carole's post as "taking umbrage" at your opinions.
Quite the contrary.  She was posing questions -- asking you to clarify
some of your statements.  That's what a *debate* is.


I will have to respectfully disagree, but the words 'I do however 
take issue with this statement' implies to me "umbrage" :-) and that 
was not my intention, as I stressed in my original post. And I have 
tried to clarify some of my statements in my response to Carole's 
post :-)

My original posts and this post is meant ONLY as a light-hearted 
airing of views and if I haven't been clear in some of my statements 
I have tried to rectify that, as is I believe customary in a 
*debate*. My statements are NOT meant to be taken issue of, they are 
as I have stressed my opinions only :-) 

Penny wrote:
I think Carole was probably hinting at future plots that some of us 
have speculated about. Scenarios such as: (a) Hermione telling Ron 
she doesn't like him back & that she likes Harry instead, and Ron 
possibly misinterpreting (or correctly interpreting) Harry as 
returning Hermione's feelings and betraying Harry as a result; (b) 
Harry developing romantic feelings for Hermione but shoving her aside 
because he wouldn't want to endanger her (this holds true for any 
person he might have romantic interest in btw, including Ginny), etc. 
There is,IMO, the potential for a romantic subplot that works into 
the main struggle between Voldemort & the good guys.

As I mentioned in my post to Carole, R/H breaking up (whether to make 
way for H/H or just because people do break up ;-) would indeed make 
a great fanfic. The scenarios Penny has outlined above ARE great 
scenarios and all very plausible, but I believe we differ in how we 
see he canon eventually going (an understatement of massive 
proportions <vbg>). I and my fellow shipmates see R/H in the canon 
staying together as MORE plausible than their breaking up due to any 
of the various, different scenarios we fans may come up with, that's 
all. As fun as it is to predict what JKR will do, I have great faith 
in JKR's imagination so I doubt that any one of us will actually 
predict what she will do correctly, as I am sure you will agree ;-) 
But, hey that's what fanfics are for, to explore all possible 
scenarios and plausible outcomes :-)

I agree with Penny, there IS 'potential for a romantic subplot that 
works into the main struggle between Voldemort & the good guys'. I 
just see a different potential than the ones involving Harry and 
Hermione <vbg>. As for Ron getting killed in saving Harry, that is 
very possible (but heartbreaking scenario), but I still don't see 
Hermione turning to Harry for comfort, since I don't see any H/H 
subtext ;-) That too me would be like Harry playing second-fiddle to 
Ron <vbg> nor do I see Ron breaking up with Hermione. Ronniekins may 
be immature now, but hey we still have three books to go and boys do 
eventually turn into men if they live ;-)

Penny wrote:
Again, you've misinterpreted the subtext argument. The subtext 
argument has to do with Hermione's feelings for Harry, which in & of 
itself does not support H/H as teens. Harry has no interest in her as 
yet.

Yes, I did figure out that H/H fans do not believe that Harry has any 
interest in Hermione as YET <vbg>. That was my point! 

So just to clarify, I think what Penny is saying, regarding FITD is:

FITD detracts from R/H because Ron likes Hermione, but Hermione does 
not like Ron, and we all agree that you need 2 people in a 
relationship.

FITD does not support H/H as TEENS, but it does support a *future* 
H/H pairing, since Harry does not like Hermione *as yet* but will 
return her feelings ENENTUALLY.

FITD makes sense for a FUTURE H/H pairing because H/H fans see H/H as 
more suited to each other than R/H.

I still do not see there being a FUTURE H/H pairing based on the 
subtext argument of Hermione's feelings for Harry because:

IMO H/H are not compatable as a romantic couple, nor does Hermione 
have feelings for Harry. WE R/H fans see R/H as far more suitable 
romantically than H/H <vgb>.

My fellow R/H-er's and I do not see Harry's interest in Hermione 
changing in the future, so Harry does not like her romantically now, 
nor will he in the future <vbg>. 

That my friends is the crux of the whole HP shipper debate in a 
nutshell, don't you agree (just to clarify, I meant that rhetorically 
<vbg>)? So, once again let us agree to disagree, since we seem to be 
going in circles with this :-)

I hope that I have clarified things from my previous posts somewhat :-
) As interesting, entertaining, and enjoyable as this *debate* has 
been, I have said nothing to change the minds of true H/H fans and 
nor was that my intention, so please do not take my words as personal 
attacks or in any manner other than light-hearted :-) 

The main point and bottom line of this and my previous posts is that 
we all agree that there are different INPTERPRETATIONS of who likes 
who, which is based on opinion and personal experience, so there 
really is no right or wrong <bg>. None of us are JKR, nor can we read 
her mind (as much as we all wish we could ;-). So, I am NOT saying 
H/H-er's are wrong. I am just voicing my reasons why I do not agree 
with H/H. My belief in R/H is as strong as any true H/H fans is in 
H/H <g>. MY stance on R/H is based on MY interpretation of the books, 
chats and interviews, just as H/H fans view is based on their 
interpretation, and I will leave it at that :-).

If I come across as confident and vocal regarding R/H <vbg>, it is 
because I believe that is the way JKR is headed (NOTE: the stress is 
on 'believe' ;-)). I believe I have posted the main reasons WHY I see 
R/H in my original post, so I will not repeat them here. Nor, do I 
wish to take the helm of the Good Ship R/H :-) Captain Kathy is doing 
a wonderful job, so I will leave her to take up the shipping debate. 
I am merely a lurker who delurked for a moment and now I will return 
to Sugar Quill Island, having said my piece. Happy sailing everyone!

Bouncer Firoza, who will now try to go back to delurking...