Voldemort's brand of EOS (Was Ch. 34); Dumbledore

[Hillman, Lee]

No: HPFGUIDX 14175

I wrote a bunch of stuff in Defence of Voldemort (ycch) and AmyZ wrote:
> 
> I mostly agree with you; I don't think V has done anything 
> phenomenally dumb; we are just sensitive to any signs of Evil 
> Overlord 
> Syndrome because it's so overdone by authors who back themselves into 
> a corner because they've made their Overlord so invincible, then have 
> to have him do something foolish (usually due to arrogance) in order 
> to bring him down.  Each thing he does "wrong" can be explained 
> without him having EOS.  But there are a few mistakes that V 
> does make 
> that are more serious than I think you're estimating:
> 
> (1) his arrogance at age 16.  No, the grown-up V doesn't know about 
> the events of CoS.  But if we are looking at his character 
> overall, we 
> can fairly include what his projected 16-year-old self did and say, 
> "This guy has a pattern of letting his arrogance and ambition 
> interfere with his judgment."
> 
Depending on the timeline, this diary was created shortly before he murdered
his father. He's certainly arrogant, and he hasn't lost that brazen
self-confidence, but I think it's overstating to say that a 16 year old
who's power hungry will necessarily become a mad sorcerer (though he comes
dangerously close to saying, "I am invincible!" in the Chamber scene).

> (2) his not anticipating being unable to touch Harry.  This isn't 
> Quirrell's fault; how's he supposed to know?  It's his hands that 
> burn, but it's Voldemort who is allergic to Harryskin.  And 
> while this 
> may be unexpected, it is part of the "ancient magic" that V really 
> ought to study up on.  Which brings us to 
> 
> (3) his not anticipating the possibility of Lily's protecting Harry, 
> however she did it.  Again, this was not something anyone 
> predicted as 
> far as we know, but V refers to it as "ancient magic," which implies 
> that it is at least theoretically knowable by him or anyone who pays 
> enough attention.  (I still lean toward the "it's pure love" theory, 
> in which case "ancient magic" is a rather ironic term, like 
> the Deeper 
> Magic that causes Aslan to be resurrected in LWW.  Both authors are 
> deliberately using the term "magic" to describe what is 
> usually called 
> "love," "Atonement," "sacrifice," or some other deep 
> emotional/theological power.)
> 

I think it's highly unlikely that every other mother of a small child in
that era simply stepped aside when told to and chose their lives over the
lives of their children. I think it's much more likely that he's encountered
this kind of resistance before but never had any trouble overcoming it. For
whatever reason, Lily and Harry were the exception. Even with a knowledge of
"deep ancient magic," it's difficult to see how one would foresee this. It
may be we don't have enough information about the DE's early activity to
decide this yet either way. As for anticipating that his allergy would
transfer to Quirrell, I don't have an explanation for that.

> None of this adds up to a string of bad errors, but I think the truth 
> is somewhere between "he's a typical EO who causes his own downfall 
> through sheer stupidity or sniffing too much asphodel" and "he hasn't 
> done anything careless."
> 

Yeah, and I never thought I'd be the one defending the git. But he certainly
hasn't struck me as the type to think up impossibly elaborate death
scenarios and he's never yet mistreated Nagini, so at least he loves his
pets. His minions do have those face-hiding masks, though....

> 
> I look forward to reading your backstory (a Dumbledore fanfic?  Rare 
> event!).  Warning:  careful about your dates.  As far as we can 
> determine, Dumbledore was giving Tom Riddle significant looks in the 
> corridors of Hogwarts at the height of WWII.  It's almost definite 
> that he was teaching at Hogwarts before 1945. 
> 

I think this comment warrants a Homer Simpson "D'Oh!" Did I say spying
during WWII? I meant WWI---he came out of retirement to fight in WWII. But I
do think that the first CoS wasn't _exactly_ 50 years before Harry's
CoS--the characters all say "about" 50 years ago. I think it's much more
likely that the CoS was opened around 1940, thus giving even Dumbledore time
to become enlisted in the fight against Grindlewald and defeating him in
1945.

Apologies to non-fan-fic readers. You can skip this paragraph. And it's not
exactly a Dumbledore backstory, per se. See, I'm writing a fic that involves
Dumbledore at a very young age and in the present, and to do that, I had to
know things about his past. The story also involves Lucius Malfoy, so I had
to know about his past as well...which means learning his father's story,
intertwined with Dumbledore's and Riddle's.... Lucius decided to tell me all
about it. In more detail than I really wanted to know. But perhaps some of
the Grindlewald period of Dumbledore's life will work its way into the
present story, as well...


Gwen