Voldemort's brand of EOS (Was Ch. 34); Dumbledore

[ladychitterly at yahoo.co.uk]

No: HPFGUIDX 14188

--- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Hillman, Lee" <lee_hillman at u...> wrote:
> I wrote a bunch of stuff in Defence of Voldemort (ycch) and AmyZ 
wrote:
> > 
> > I mostly agree with you; I don't think V has done anything 
> > phenomenally dumb; we are just sensitive to any signs of Evil 
> > Overlord 
> > Syndrome because it's so overdone by authors who back themselves 
into 
> > a corner because they've made their Overlord so invincible, then 
have 
> > to have him do something foolish (usually due to arrogance) in 
order 
> > to bring him down.  Each thing he does "wrong" can be explained 
> > without him having EOS.  But there are a few mistakes that V 
> > does make 
> > that are more serious than I think you're estimating:
> > 
> > (1) his arrogance at age 16.  No, the grown-up V doesn't know 
about 
> > the events of CoS.  But if we are looking at his character 
> > overall, we 
> > can fairly include what his projected 16-year-old self did and 
say, 
> > "This guy has a pattern of letting his arrogance and ambition 
> > interfere with his judgment."
> > 
> Depending on the timeline, this diary was created shortly before he 
murdered
> his father. He's certainly arrogant, and he hasn't lost that brazen
> self-confidence, but I think it's overstating to say that a 16 year 
old
> who's power hungry will necessarily become a mad sorcerer (though 
he comes
> dangerously close to saying, "I am invincible!" in the Chamber 
scene).
> 
> > (2) his not anticipating being unable to touch Harry.  This isn't 
> > Quirrell's fault; how's he supposed to know?  It's his hands that 
> > burn, but it's Voldemort who is allergic to Harryskin.  And 
> > while this 
> > may be unexpected, it is part of the "ancient magic" that V 
really 
> > ought to study up on.  Which brings us to 
> > 
> > (3) his not anticipating the possibility of Lily's protecting 
Harry, 
> > however she did it.  Again, this was not something anyone 
> > predicted as 
> > far as we know, but V refers to it as "ancient magic," which 
implies 
> > that it is at least theoretically knowable by him or anyone who 
pays 
> > enough attention.  (I still lean toward the "it's pure love" 
theory, 
> > in which case "ancient magic" is a rather ironic term, like 
> > the Deeper 
> > Magic that causes Aslan to be resurrected in LWW.  Both authors 
are 
> > deliberately using the term "magic" to describe what is 
> > usually called 
> > "love," "Atonement," "sacrifice," or some other deep 
> > emotional/theological power.)
> > 
> 
> I think it's highly unlikely that every other mother of a small 
child in
> that era simply stepped aside when told to and chose their lives 
over the
> lives of their children. I think it's much more likely that he's 
encountered
> this kind of resistance before but never had any trouble overcoming 
it. For
> whatever reason, Lily and Harry were the exception. Even with a 
knowledge of
> "deep ancient magic," it's difficult to see how one would foresee 
this. It
> may be we don't have enough information about the DE's early 
activity to
> decide this yet either way. As for anticipating that his allergy 
would
> transfer to Quirrell, I don't have an explanation for that.


Okay, I've got one thing to say about 
> 
> > None of this adds up to a string of bad errors, but I think the 
truth 
> > is somewhere between "he's a typical EO who causes his own 
downfall 
> > through sheer stupidity or sniffing too much asphodel" and "he 
hasn't 
> > done anything careless."
> > 
> 
> Yeah, and I never thought I'd be the one defending the git. But he 
certainly
> hasn't struck me as the type to think up impossibly elaborate death
> scenarios and he's never yet mistreated Nagini, so at least he 
loves his
> pets. His minions do have those face-hiding masks, though....
> 
> > 
> > I look forward to reading your backstory (a Dumbledore fanfic?  
Rare 
> > event!).  Warning:  careful about your dates.  As far as we can 
> > determine, Dumbledore was giving Tom Riddle significant looks in 
the 
> > corridors of Hogwarts at the height of WWII.  It's almost 
definite 
> > that he was teaching at Hogwarts before 1945. 
> > 
> 
> I think this comment warrants a Homer Simpson "D'Oh!" Did I say 
spying
> during WWII? I meant WWI---he came out of retirement to fight in 
WWII. But I
> do think that the first CoS wasn't _exactly_ 50 years before Harry's
> CoS--the characters all say "about" 50 years ago. I think it's much 
more
> likely that the CoS was opened around 1940, thus giving even 
Dumbledore time
> to become enlisted in the fight against Grindlewald and defeating 
him in
> 1945.
> 
> Apologies to non-fan-fic readers. You can skip this paragraph. And 
it's not
> exactly a Dumbledore backstory, per se. See, I'm writing a fic that 
involves
> Dumbledore at a very young age and in the present, and to do that, 
I had to
> know things about his past. The story also involves Lucius Malfoy, 
so I had
> to know about his past as well...which means learning his father's 
story,
> intertwined with Dumbledore's and Riddle's.... Lucius decided to 
tell me all
> about it. In more detail than I really wanted to know. But perhaps 
some of
> the Grindlewald period of Dumbledore's life will work its way into 
the
> present story, as well...
> 
> 
> Gwen

Okay, I've got one comment to make. Gwen said that Voldemort had 
encountered the protection Lily had given Harry before, but there was 
something different about those two. Actually, I think it's pretty 
unlikely that he had encountered it. With most good wizarding 
families, Voldemort was out to get the parents. Quite a few of the 
children are alive and go to Hogwarts. But in Harry's case, it was 
different. Voldemort was out to get Harry; in fact, he says in SS/PS 
that Lily "needn't have died... she was trying to protect you..." We 
don't know why it was so nessesary to kill Harry, and Dumbledore 
wouldn't tell. 
"If there is one thing that Voldemort cannot understand, it is love."

Leslie