Obliviation - Snape at 3rd task? at rebirthing? - Who knew about SB - CoS

[Amy Z]

No: HPFGUIDX 19844

Vicky wrote:

>Interesting observation. Seen in this light, Lockhart might not be 
evil. It's
>bad to make people conveniently forget things, but not evil in my 
view. In fact,
>in some cases, perhaps it's better to forget things.

So you wouldn't object to someone reaching in and wiping out whichever 
ones of your memories =he= found inconvenient?  

There are a few things stuck in my mind that I wouldn't mind being 
able to forget, I suppose.  However, my accomplishments (which are 
what Lockhart erases from the various successful Dark Arts fighters 
around the world) and the things I urgently need to remember in order 
to keep my family safe (which is what he tries to erase from Ron) are 
not among them.

Heidi wrote:

>The timing issue specifically relates to how long it would take 
Snape,
>without apparating, to get from a location on the Hogwarts grounds to 
the
>site of the 3rd Task to tell Dumbledore that not only is the Dark 
Mark
>visible again, it's actually burning black - and that has only 
happened in
>the past when Voldemort has summoned his Death Eaters to his side. In 
other
>words, if Snape wasn't at the 3rd Task, but in his dungeon in the 
middle of
>a potion, when the Summons came from Voldemort, he would've had to 
halt the
>potion creation, leave the dungeon, lock it and either go on foot 
from there
>to the Quidditch field and then find dumbledore or use the Fireplace
>Traveling mechanism (which I am not sure is exactly floo poweder) to 
get to
>the front of the school and go on foot from there. It could take 10 
or 15
>minutes to make this trip, easily, and during that time, we don't 
know of
>any other way that he could let Dumbledore know about the Dark Mark.

Thanks for the explanation.  According to my timing, unless he were 
deep inside the Forest, or outside Hogwarts in some location from 
which he couldn't Apparate to Hogsmeade, he'd have plenty of time.  
The other exception is if the Portkey did have a time-travel element, 
so that Harry and Cedric reappeared at the edge of the maze 
immediately after disappearing from the center.

(Also, it might take 15 minutes to run from the dungeons to the 
Quidditch field, but there are other ways of communicating an 
emergency, e.g. Dumbledore's silver bird (?) that he sends to Hagrid.)

David wrote:

>I thought that Snape flinching was evidence that
>he was not at the DE scene - if he had been he would have known who
>they were and that Harry could identify them.  The flinching might be
>because Snape had hoped that Malfoy wouldn't go back to Voldemort -
>maybe he cares about Draco.  Or are you suggesting that he didn't
>want Harry to blurt what they both knew, or that he thought Harry was
>about to finger *him*?

Yes, that's what I'm suggesting, but your suggestion is just as 
probable.  As I said, my guess is Snape =wasn't= at the graveyard.  
But listies have pointed out that since Voldemort doesn't identify 
every DE there, he could have been.  I do confess myself morbidly 
intrigued by the thought of Snape being undercover at this terrible 
scene, watching helplessly as Harry and all their hopes seem to be on 
the verge of destruction.

Robert wrote:

>Perhaps it _is_ widely "known", and Fudge is just exaggerating
>his own importance, as one of the Few who know the Sordid
>Secret of Sirius Black.

That does sound Fudgelike, doesn't it?  I am quite certain Ron doesn't 
know, though.  I.e., it isn't a part of the story that every kid grows 
up hearing, the way they hear the bits about Voldemort killing Lily 
and James and failing to kill Harry.  I believe I've come across a 
fanfic that suggests that Ron did know, but that makes him out to be 
very deceptive--ugh.  The same goes for Hermione; I don't think the 
Black-Potter connection made the history books.

Some people who were alive at the time knew, e.g. Arthur Weasley 
(though it's possible he's just been filled in by Fudge) and Lucius 
Malfoy (who did pass along the info to Draco).  Harry assumes that 
Hagrid knew, and it's true that somewhere along the line Hagrid learns 
the story--it doesn't seem to be news to him when Fudge tells it.

I don't necessarily think there's a conspiracy involved.  It's just a 
piece of the story that most people wouldn't have known to begin with; 
you don't need to postulate the existence of a traitor to explain how 
someone got killed by Voldemort.  Then, those who were close enough to 
the family to know would probably not spread it around--it's too sad 
and painful, plus it's somewhat tactless to talk about it because it 
suggests that Lily and James died of their own naivete (just the kind 
of thing Lucius, on the other hand, =would= enjoy pointing out at the 
dinner table).  I just wondered, that's all.

Sign me up for the CoS fan club (president, Susan McGee, 
spokesman-in-chief, CMC).  I like all the things that CM mentioned 
(minus Lockhart, though the jury's still out), plus, angst-magnet that 
I am, I like it because it is darker and more emotionally complex than 
PS/SS.

I read CoS first by mistake, knowing only the sketchiest things about 
Harry Potter when I went into it (boy wizard at school, parents killed 
when he was a baby--i.e., the stuff you learn in the first 3 pages 
anyway), and what grabbed me was Harry's inner struggle about whether 
he actually belonged in Slytherin.  That's the emotional thread that 
runs through the book, as I read it, and doesn't resolve until the 
second-to-last chapter, and it's complex and intriguing.  In short, I 
like CS for the same reasons that I love PA.  It might even be my 
=second= favorite book, though when pushed to decide for the poll, I 
chose GF for the number two spot and put CS third.

Amy Z

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  "Blimey," said the other twin.  "Are you--?"
  "He =is=," said the first twin.  "Aren't you?" 
 he added to Harry.
  "What?" said Harry.
  "=Harry Potter=," chorused the twins.
  "Oh, him," said Harry.  "I mean, yes, I am."
                -HP and the Philosopher's Stone
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