Lupin's Patronus (LONG)

[Cindy C.]

No: HPFGUIDX 28868

Kyli wrote:

> I was thinkng more along the lines of no one else can see what your 
patronus 
> is. Like when the silvery stuff comes out of wands, it could only 
be the 
> conjurer that sees its form. But then again, how could Dumbledore 
know that 
> "Prongs rode again" that night?
> 

I think others can discern the form of someone else's Patronus.  
Harry conjures a stag at the Quiddich match.  Dumbledore says:  "And 
then I remembered the most unusual form your Patronus took, when it 
charged Mr. Malfoy down . . . "  Lupin appears also to have 
recognized Harry's Quiddich Patronus as a stag, as he is reported to 
have been both "shaken and pleased."  It seems he is pleased because 
Harry is successful, but shaken because he recognizes the peculiar 
connection between James' animagus form and Harry's Patronus, IMHO.

*******

This whole idea about why Lupin might or might not be capable of a 
big, impressive Patronus is interesting, and together we've come up 
with some nifty theories.  

One idea out there is that Lupin's Patronus is formless because he 
can't think of a really good happy memory.  There's also the idea 
that Lupin isn't skilled enough to do a formed Patronus.  We've also 
talked about whether his Patronus is clouds and so is fully formed.  
That got me thinking about whether we can discern any "rules" of 
conjuring a Patronus.  (Forgive the numbered list, but I think I'll 
confuse myself without it).

1.  When Harry couldn't think of happy enough memories, he failed to 
conjur a Patronus at all.  

2.  When Harry does have a happy enough memory in the presence of a 
real or boggart dementor, he experiences "symptoms" (cold, screaming, 
weakness) and he conjures a formless Patronus.  This happens during 
the Patronus lesson and also by the lake.  

3.  The exception to Rule 2 is in GoF, when Harry encounters the 
boggart-dementor in the maze.  He has symptoms, but still manages a 
big, impressive Patronus anyway.  Perhaps the explanation for this is 
in PoA:  "I knew I could do it this time," said Harry, "because I'd 
already done it."

4.  When Harry has a happy memory and no dementors are 
causing "symptoms," he makes huge, impressive Patronuses.  One time 
is with the Malfoy-dementor and another time is when he is across the 
lake.  

Setting aside the one example (Rule 3) from GoF for now, 
the "existence" of Harry's Patronus (that is, whether he can conjure 
one at all), seems to me related to one thing:  whether he can 
conjure a happy enough thought.  The "strength" (that is, form and 
power) of Harry's Patronus seems related to whether he is 
experiencing the debilitating effects of a dementor while he is 
conjuring a Patronus.  For Rule 3, I think Harry is now sufficiently 
experienced and confident by his fourth year that he can conjure a 
formed Patronus under any conditions.

Applying these "rules" to Lupin means that if he had no happy memory, 
he'd get no Patronus at all.  If he has a happy memory and is feeling 
dementor-like symptoms, then he ought to conjure a formless 
Patronus.  If he has a happy memory and isn't feeling dementor 
symptoms, then he ought to conjure a formed Patronus that drives the 
dementors away.  If he's really experienced and confident but  
feeling symptoms, then he still should conjure a formed Patronus that 
drives the dementors away.

So what's going on with Lupin's Patronus?  First, we know he has 
happy memories from when Sirius, Peter and James became his friends.  
He tells us:  "But apart from my transformations, I was happier than 
I had ever been in my life."  That should mean he has memories happy 
enough to conjure a Patronus, and he does so on the train.  

With the dementor on the train, Lupin ought to feel dementor-like 
symptoms (possibly re-living his horrible transformations?) because 
the dementor is real, is right in front of Lupin, and is definitely 
doing its dementor-happiness-sucking thing.  So there would be two 
possibilities:  perhaps Lupin can only manage a formless Patronus 
like Harry could in the dementor-boggart lessons, or maybe Lupin is 
experienced and confident like Harry and can do (and does do) a full-
blown Patronus.  

Ummm, normally, I'd say Lupin is definitely confident and experienced 
like Harry, so I'd vote for fully-formed Patronus.  In that case, his 
Patronus is likely fully formed clouds.  This does make some sense, 
because the dementor on the train retreats (although we don't know if 
Lupin's Patronus actually chased it down or if the dementor left for 
other reasons). 

I'm still not sure Lupin's train Patronus was fully formed, though, 
because his self-deprecating statement that he's not an expert 
doesn't exactly suggest he thinks he's experienced and confident.  I 
understand that this might just be a bit of false modesty, just Lupin 
being humble.  IIRC, however, Lupin doesn't disparage his own skills 
in any other context (we see him perform or explain defense against 
Peeves, boggarts, redcaps, etc.), so I wonder if his statement is 
more than false modesty.  Can anyone recall another instance in which 
Lupin disparages his own magical skills?  

I've looked quickly, but I haven't found anything concrete.  The best 
opportunity for Lupin to make a self-deprecating comment is when he 
is discussing his resignation with Harry.  Harry tells Lupin he's the 
best DADA teacher they've had and begs Lupin not to resign.  Lupin 
shakes his head and says nothing.  He doesn't say "Oh, I'm not that 
great," or some such.  I still haven't totally made up my mind about 
this, and I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts.

Anyway, that's enough.  Don't even get me started on whether Lupin 
needs chocolate after battling the dementor on the train, and if not, 
why not.

Cindy