Hermione and power (touches on SHIPping)

[Ebony]

No: HPFGUIDX 29843

What an intriguing post, Hella.  I am sure that other Hermione fans, 
both newbies and old battle-scarred vets like me, will be chiming in 
shortly...

--- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Hella" <hfakhro at n...> wrote:
> This topic comes at a good time, just after a fresh batch of 
shipping debates. I was explaining to a friend the 
different 'shipping' positions concerning Hermione, and she agreed 
with H/H, saying that Hermione likes Harry. She thinks that Hermione 
has a 'thing' for power. Her evidence is Hermione's crush on Lockhart 
as he was a 'powerful' professor, at least in the duration of CoS (I 
poo-poohed this but she was adamant). What does this tell us about 
her relationship with Lupin?
> 

Well, I think that Hermione has a tendency to form mentoring 
relationships with many of her teachers.  I think that a fair case 
could be made for a mentoring relationship between her and Minerva 
McGonagall, and perhaps other faculty that we know nothing of.  The 
Lockhart thing can be glossed over a bit... after all, Sir Gilderoy 
seemed to be the female answer to the veela in GoF.  Look at Molly 
Weasley's reaction to him.


> However the next things she said were a bit jarring - that Hermione 
> likes Harry because of his power and his fame and that's the same 
> reason she likes Krum. I argued with her on that, saying actually 
> Hermione was doing something quite unpopular with her friends by 
> going out with Krum, but she seems to think otherwise.

I think she went out with Krum because he was the first one to ask 
her and she wanted to go.  *shrug*  Perhaps we'll find out more in 
later books, but I don't think her reasons for accepting him are all 
that essential to her character.  I'd say that what transpired 
immediately before, during, and after the ball give far more insight.

> Anyway she is of the opinion that Hermione may be the 'weakest 
link' so to speak, in future books because of her desire for power 
and to be associated with it; that this is something the dark side 
might use against her. I disagree with her strongly, because her 
theory is dependent upon several things. One is that to Hermione the 
most important thing is power. This just rubs me the wrong way, but I 
> can't really put my finger on why.
> 

Could it be that your friend really doesn't have her finger on the 
pulse of the characters (Eb humbly asked)?  There are plenty of 
things more important to Hermione than power... observe the Great 
Wizard speech in PS/SS... the first thing eleven year old (NOTE:  
product placement for Team 1980!) Hermione notes in what she says to 
Harry is *friendship*.

We have argued back and forth over whether or not Hermione is 
compassionate.  I would say that she is.  Others vehemently disagree, 
saying that what appears to be concern and caring is simple 
intellectual curiosity.  Well, I'm not sure that theory holds water 
(for instance, what intellectual curiosity does Neville Longbottom 
hold for Hermione that she deems it necessary to constantly defend 
him?) but I think there is clearly enough evidence in the books to 
make a case for her being a bleeding heart liberal in embryonic form 
at the very least.

One more thing about power.  Hermione does have a healthy respect for 
authority figures, and she does seem very proud of Harry and others 
for extraordinary accomplishments, but Hermione does not value all 
power.  Certainly she despises the power of Voldemort, Lucius Malfoy, 
and Dark creatures like the Dementors.  She also seems to not care 
much for the way that Severus Snape abuses his power in the classroom 
and around Hogwarts (go AWAY, Sevvie fans!  Back, back!  :-D).  Canon 
definitely shows that Hermione is not unilaterally in love with power.


> Another thing that seems to be implied is that Hermione is only 
> friends with Ron because she has to be in order to maintain her 
> relationship with Harry. (This is also her theory as to Hermione's 
> positions in the PoA fight and the GoF fight). I guess the reason 
> this rubs me the wrong way is that Hermione strikes me as being a 
> very earnest and honest sort of person. 

Hermione's friendship with Ron is genuine because that is the kind of 
girl she is.  Harry may have been the initial catalyst for their 
friendship, but if something were to happen to him, I'm sure the 
other two will carry on.  Hermione really likes Ron as a person and I 
would say she feels rather responsible for him (Gwen posted some 
GREAT thoughts about the Ron/Hermione dynamic right here on the list 
the other day).


> One other question for shippers: what does who Hermione likes have 
to do with her personality? I think this may be the crux of the 
debate, as I understand it. I think that H/H shippers and R/H 
shippers have a very different opinion on who Hermione is and what is 
most important to her. This notion came to me only after my friend 
made those power comments. I'm aware that H/H-ers tend to love 
Hermione as their favourite character, and probably don't view her as 
power-hungry, but I was hoping to understand whether or not there 
might be some differences in the way the two 'camps' view Hermione.
> 

As an opinionated Hermione fan, a notorious H/Her, and someone who 
writes post-Hogwarts Hermione centered fanfiction, I feel more than 
qualified to give my unsolicited take on this.  :-D

I've found that many, many people who are huge on Hermione tend to 
ship H/H or at least lean that way.  (A few are no-shippers.)  This 
is because we see a lot of Hermione in ourselves, even when it is 
embarrassing.  We put ourselves into her situations and predict what 
she would do and think.  And from all this, we usually work out that 
she either likes Harry or no one at all.  We can see her working with 
Harry, or a few other characters in some cases.  We do not see how 
that personality type and Ron's personality type could mesh 
successfully.  Friendship, yes.  Future relationship, no.

Many, many R/Hers, on the other hand, seem to tend towards valuing 
Ron and his recovery/preservation above all else.  Many of them (even 
the women) strongly identify with Ron and/or Ginny, having come from 
similar real-life situations.  I think it is because I grew up in a 
large Weasley-like extended family but ended up as a Hermione-type 
that I like to analyze R/H much more than my shipmates do.  Hence, my 
manifesto... the R/H fanfiction that most R/Hers don't care for.  :-D

The reason for the sharp edge on the eternal H/H vs. R/H shipper 
debates may be this:  we H/Hers feel that Hermione's feelings are not 
taken into account by the R/Hers, and the R/Hers always say that we 
who ship H/H hate Ron and don't cut him enough slack.  So I'd say 
that Hermione fans and Ron fans do have an unhealthy tendency to 
divide along those lines.

Those of us who are also Harry fans can find common ground 
elsewhere.  For instance, Jenny from Ravenclaw ships R/H and H/G, and 
I ship H/H, but we both love Harry to bits and can talk about his 
character and possible outcomes for ages.  I know I have a tendency 
to read canon through Harry's point of view as well... I tend to like 
the characters that Harry likes and find fault with those who give 
him trouble.  (Case in point:  it wasn't until the movie that I found 
Snape even remotely interesting.)

Hope some of this made sense.  More thoughts later... I'm not at home 
right now and must get off my mom's dime.  Thanks for posting, Hella.

--Ebony

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Ebony AKA AngieJ
ebonyink at hotmail.com
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You do not have to walk on your knees for a hundred miles through the 
desert, repenting.
You only have to let the soft animal of your body love what it loves."

--from Mary Oliver's *Wild Geese*