Resisting The Imperious Curse

[Cindy C.]

No: HPFGUIDX 27950

Scott wrote:

> I have a little bit of a problem with that. Granted
> that Crouch Jr. Was weaker than his father. He does
> say something that strikes me. In GOF (the
> unforgivable curses) page 217 he says after casting
> the killing curse.
> 
> "Avada Dedavra's a curse that needs a powerful bit of
> mayic behind it --- you could all get your wands out
> now and point them at me and say the words, and i
> doubt i'd get so much as a nosebleed."
> 
> This says to me gee scott this guy must be pretty
> powerful to be able to cast an unblockable curse that
> kills on target. 


I think it is hard to sort out the relative power of Crouch Sr. vs. 
Crouch Jr.  Crouch/Moody only kills a spider with Avada Kedavra, 
right?  Maybe it takes some magical power to kill a bug, but much 
more to kill a wizard.  The best evidence of Crouch/Moody's power 
might come later, when he kills Crouch Sr. (who is in a seriously 
weakened state, BTW).  But we don't know exactly how Crouch/Moody 
killed Crouch Sr. (he never tells us).  So we do know that 
Crouch/Moody is powerful enough to cast Avada Kedavra on a spider, 
but we don't know if Crouch/Moody cast it on Crouch Sr., but since we 
don't know if Crouch Sr. can also cast Avada Kedavra, the whole 
tortured analysis doesn't tell us a lot about their relative power.  

And of course, Avada Kedavra is different from Imperius because the 
former cannot be blocked, while the latter can be blocked.  So 
they're probably not really comparable.  I think all the facts we 
have about Crouch/Moody show he is a reasonably powerful wizard, but 
still less powerful than Crouch Sr. (who Sirius called "powerfully 
magical").

[And while I'm on the subject, I'll issue a quick L.O.O.N alert.  I 
made an error in my prior post in which I said Wormtail placed Crouch 
Sr. under the Imperius Curse.  Under Veritaserum, Crouch Jr. tells us 
that Voldemort did that.  That fact actually makes the theory 
stronger, because Voldemort apparently was unwilling to delegate this 
task to Wormtail, presumably because Voldemort's Imperius Curse (even 
in his slimy baby state) would be a great deal stronger than 
Wormtail's.]

Scott wrote:

Much less get Viktor Krum (a seventh
> year from a school which concentrates heavily on the
> dark arts) to fall to the imperius curse and then cast
> the cruciatus curse on a fellow student (i firmly
> believe that krum was trying to fight that hard).

I think Victor is easy pickings for Crouch/Moody, frankly.  Victor is 
only a student, and perhaps not that powerful aside from his flying 
talent.  Also, his transformation as a shark in the second task 
wasn't exactly impressive.  (That dragon conjunctivitus curse in the 
First Task was nothing to write home about, either).  Maybe Victor 
could have cast off Crouch/Moody's Imperius Curse after a while, but 
not right away.

Scott wrote:

> Based on this fact i dont think that the imperius
> curse is something that can just be routinely cast by
> a wizard of diminished power of any sort. Simply
> because the battle of minds that the caster has to
> employ would be no small thing. 

I didn't mean to suggest that weakened or injured wizards could 
perform the Imperius Curse.  I meant to say it is a function the 
power of the wizard casting it compared to the power of the wizard 
resisting it.  A boxing match would be a fair analogy.  You have two 
boxers, both with some ability.  Who wins depends on the skill 
(power) of each boxer compared with the other.


Scott wrote:

Why
> wouldn't young mr. crouch be just a little more
> apprehensive about the fact the harry could fight it
> the very first time it was cast on him. 

Using the boxing analogy, imagine that I sparred with Joe Frazier in 
his prime, and he was able to, well, beat the heck out of me.  That 
fact wouldn't be very important to Muhammad Ali, who is much better 
than me and can hand Joe Frazier his head any day.  Similarly, 
Crouch/Moody would figure that Harry's ability to fend off 
Crouch/Moody's Imperius curse is equally irrelevant to Voldemort 
because of the perceived disparity in power between Voldemort and 
Harry.  Also, Crouch/Moody has precious little incentive to advise 
Voldemort that Harry can throw off his Imperius curse given that 
Voldemort might disagree with these teaching methods, and DEs who 
anger Voldemort tend to pay a price for it.

I really hope that in future books we learn a bit more about 
defending against curses.  Right now, we've only seen a 
few "defensive" maneuvers (blocking Imperio, the shield charm, Priori 
Incantatem).  The kids have a lot to learn in this area before they 
are ready for prime time.

Scott wrote:

You would
> think that after his master's downfall that the death
> eaters and their master would be just a little more
> cautious about their actions. (and weaknesses) I think
> the dark lord hasn't exactly done his homework.
> 

Ain't it the truth!  Good help is hard to find, no?
  
Cindy (who hopes that she just used the very first ever heavyweight 
boxing analogy on HP4GU)