[HPforGrownups] Re: Resisting The Imperious Curse

[scott chatten]

No: HPFGUIDX 27973

I like the theory but (if you will please forgive me
for being so contrary) i still can't get a handle on
the whole powerful v.s. not powerful thing. i mean if
harry can cast (though i know this is a major
difference) a summoning charm on a book or a broom or
a trophy and have it (after learning the charm first
of course) come to him just the same. I would think
that it would sort of be relative to other forms of
magic. On the flip side to support my little theory of
magic effects relying on the power of the subject not
the caster. 

one stunning charm was enough for harry to put out
Viktor Krum during the third task. and yet to put out
four dragons it took over thirty wizards!!!! In case
any of you wanna correct me on how harry might have
got an adrenneline rush or maybe that the dragon's
scales may reflect some of the spells keep this in
mind. What could bring more adrenneline than having to
subdue a dragon or rescue a friend. and i would say a
first year v.s. a fourth year is about equal to 7
wizards v.s. one dragon.

oh well let me know what you think and if you wanna
read the quotes that i got all my info from here you
go!!!

yours truly 

Scott

P.S. Here are the quotes that back me up:

GOF (The third task{Page 626}) : "'What are you
doing?' yelled Cedric's voice. 'What the hell d'you
think you're doing?'
And then Harry heard Krum's voice.
'Crucio!'
The air was suddenly full of Cedric's yells.
Horrified, Harry began sprinting up his path, trying
to find a way into Cedric's. When none appeared, he
tried the Reductor Curse again. It wasn't bery
effective, but it burned a smapp hole in the hedge
through which Harry forced his leg, kicking at the
thinck brambles and branches until they brok and made
an opening; he struggled through it,tearing his robes,
and looking to his right, saw Cedric jerking and
twitching on the ground, Krum standing over him.
Harry pulled himself up and pointed his wand at Krum
just as Krum looked up. Krum turned and began to run. 
'Stupefy!' Harry yelled. 
The spell hit Krum in the bback; he stopped dead in
his tracks fell forward, and lay motionless, facedown
in the grass. "

and for our dear little horntail

GOF (The Hungarian Horntail{page 326})

"At least thirty wizards, seven or eight to each
dragon, were attempting to control them, pulling on
the chains connected to heavy leather straps around
their necks and legs. Mesmerized, Harry looked up,
high above him, and saw they eyes of the black dragon,
with vertical pupils like a cat's bulging with either
fear or rage, he couldn't tell which.... It was making
a horrible noise, a yowling, screeching scream....
'Keep back there, Hagrid!' yelled a wizard near the
fence, straining on the chain he was holding. 'They
can shoot fire at a range of twenty feet, you know!
I've seen this Horntail do forty!'
'Is'n'it beautiful?' said Hagrid softly.
'It's no good!' yelled another wizard. 'Stunning
Spells, on the count of three!'
Harry saw each of the dragon keepers pull out his
wand.
'STUPEFY!' they shouted in unison, and the Stunning
Spells shot into the darkness like a fiery roucets,
bursting in showers of stars on the dragon's scaly
hides --- 
Harry watched the dragon nearest to them teeter
dangerously on its back legs; its jaws streched wide
in a silent howl; its nostrils were suddenly devoid of
flame, though still smoking--- then, very slowly, it
fell.  
--- "Cindy C." <cynthiaanncoe at home.com> wrote:
> Scott wrote:
> 
> > I have a little bit of a problem with that.
> Granted
> > that Crouch Jr. Was weaker than his father. He
> does
> > say something that strikes me. In GOF (the
> > unforgivable curses) page 217 he says after
> casting
> > the killing curse.
> > 
> > "Avada Dedavra's a curse that needs a powerful bit
> of
> > mayic behind it --- you could all get your wands
> out
> > now and point them at me and say the words, and i
> > doubt i'd get so much as a nosebleed."
> > 
> > This says to me gee scott this guy must be pretty
> > powerful to be able to cast an unblockable curse
> that
> > kills on target. 
> 
> 
> I think it is hard to sort out the relative power of
> Crouch Sr. vs. 
> Crouch Jr.  Crouch/Moody only kills a spider with
> Avada Kedavra, 
> right?  Maybe it takes some magical power to kill a
> bug, but much 
> more to kill a wizard.  The best evidence of
> Crouch/Moody's power 
> might come later, when he kills Crouch Sr. (who is
> in a seriously 
> weakened state, BTW).  But we don't know exactly how
> Crouch/Moody 
> killed Crouch Sr. (he never tells us).  So we do
> know that 
> Crouch/Moody is powerful enough to cast Avada
> Kedavra on a spider, 
> but we don't know if Crouch/Moody cast it on Crouch
> Sr., but since we 
> don't know if Crouch Sr. can also cast Avada
> Kedavra, the whole 
> tortured analysis doesn't tell us a lot about their
> relative power.  
> 
> And of course, Avada Kedavra is different from
> Imperius because the 
> former cannot be blocked, while the latter can be
> blocked.  So 
> they're probably not really comparable.  I think all
> the facts we 
> have about Crouch/Moody show he is a reasonably
> powerful wizard, but 
> still less powerful than Crouch Sr. (who Sirius
> called "powerfully 
> magical").
> 
> [And while I'm on the subject, I'll issue a quick
> L.O.O.N alert.  I 
> made an error in my prior post in which I said
> Wormtail placed Crouch 
> Sr. under the Imperius Curse.  Under Veritaserum,
> Crouch Jr. tells us 
> that Voldemort did that.  That fact actually makes
> the theory 
> stronger, because Voldemort apparently was unwilling
> to delegate this 
> task to Wormtail, presumably because Voldemort's
> Imperius Curse (even 
> in his slimy baby state) would be a great deal
> stronger than 
> Wormtail's.]
> 
> Scott wrote:
> 
> Much less get Viktor Krum (a seventh
> > year from a school which concentrates heavily on
> the
> > dark arts) to fall to the imperius curse and then
> cast
> > the cruciatus curse on a fellow student (i firmly
> > believe that krum was trying to fight that hard).
> 
> I think Victor is easy pickings for Crouch/Moody,
> frankly.  Victor is 
> only a student, and perhaps not that powerful aside
> from his flying 
> talent.  Also, his transformation as a shark in the
> second task 
> wasn't exactly impressive.  (That dragon
> conjunctivitus curse in the 
> First Task was nothing to write home about, either).
>  Maybe Victor 
> could have cast off Crouch/Moody's Imperius Curse
> after a while, but 
> not right away.
> 
> Scott wrote:
> 
> > Based on this fact i dont think that the imperius
> > curse is something that can just be routinely cast
> by
> > a wizard of diminished power of any sort. Simply
> > because the battle of minds that the caster has to
> > employ would be no small thing. 
> 
> I didn't mean to suggest that weakened or injured
> wizards could 
> perform the Imperius Curse.  I meant to say it is a
> function the 
> power of the wizard casting it compared to the power
> of the wizard 
> resisting it.  A boxing match would be a fair
> analogy.  You have two 
> boxers, both with some ability.  Who wins depends on
> the skill 
> (power) of each boxer compared with the other.
> 
> 
> Scott wrote:
> 
> Why
> > wouldn't young mr. crouch be just a little more
> > apprehensive about the fact the harry could fight
> it
> > the very first time it was cast on him. 
> 
> Using the boxing analogy, imagine that I sparred
> with Joe Frazier in 
> his prime, and he was able to, well, beat the heck
> out of me.  That 
> fact wouldn't be very important to Muhammad Ali, who
> is much better 
> than me and can hand Joe Frazier his head any day. 
> Similarly, 
> Crouch/Moody would figure that Harry's ability to
> fend off 
> Crouch/Moody's Imperius curse is equally irrelevant
> to Voldemort 
> because of the perceived disparity in power between
> Voldemort and 
> Harry.  Also, Crouch/Moody has precious little
> incentive to advise 
> Voldemort that Harry can throw off his Imperius
> curse given that 
> Voldemort might disagree with these teaching
> methods, and DEs who 
> anger Voldemort tend to pay a price for it.
> 
> I really hope that in future books we learn a bit
> more about 
> defending against curses.  Right now, we've only
> seen a 
> few "defensive" maneuvers (blocking Imperio, the
> shield charm, Priori 
> Incantatem).  The kids have a lot to learn in this
> area before they 
> are ready for prime time.
> 
> Scott wrote:
> 
> You would
> > think that after his master's downfall that the
> death
> > eaters and their master would be just a little
> more
> > cautious about their actions. (and weaknesses) I
> think
> > the dark lord hasn't exactly done his homework.
> > 
> 
> Ain't it the truth!  Good help is hard to find, no?
>   
> Cindy (who hopes that she just used the very first
> ever heavyweight 
> boxing analogy on HP4GU)
> 
> 
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