[HPforGrownups] Re: Resisting The Imperious Curse

Sat Oct 20 01:19:28 UTC 2001

No: HPFGUIDX 27982

Hi it's me again.On the lexicon there is an essay on magical theory and I 
thought it would be helpful to this issue. It explains three points of magic 
something like want, focus of mind ,focus of power written by Steve 
Vanderark.(sp?) Anyways it's very thought provoking and would definetly be 
useful in this strength vs. intiative debate. Why don't you give it a 
glimpse at  http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon/magic_theory6.html
It's sheer brillance!! Anyways after you read it would you reply with input? 
I'm really curious of others' opinions! Thanx, Andrea

>From: scott chatten <sabin_oo7 at yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com
>To: HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: Resisting The Imperious Curse
>Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 16:33:26 -0700 (PDT)
>
>you may be right but i am still not sure i think that
>magic is magic reguardless of the caster. i think that
>the strength that matters is the strength of the
>subject.
>--- andrea mcpherson talia chambers
><dumbledore94 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > The initiative may be more important than the power
> > because for Voldy making
> > Harry bow to him was fun and games. However
> > resisting this was very vital to
> > Harry.Perhaps since Harry cared more about the
> > situation he managed to hold
> > it of some?So perhaps this theory PLUS Cindy's
> > theory would make sense? From
> > Andrea (newmember)
> >
> >
> > >From: scott chatten <sabin_oo7 at yahoo.com>
> > >Reply-To: HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com
> > >To: HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com
> > >Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: Resisting The
> > Imperious Curse
> > >Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 13:04:57 -0700 (PDT)
> > >
> > >I have a little bit of a problem with that. Granted
> > >that Crouch Jr. Was weaker than his father. He does
> > >say something that strikes me. In GOF (the
> > >unforgivable curses) page 217 he says after casting
> > >the killing curse.
> > >
> > >"Avada Dedavra's a curse that needs a powerful bit
> > of
> > >mayic behind it --- you could all get your wands
> > out
> > >now and point them at me and say the words, and i
> > >doubt i'd get so much as a nosebleed."
> > >
> > >This says to me gee scott this guy must be pretty
> > >powerful to be able to cast an unblockable curse
> > that
> > >kills on target. Much less get Viktor Krum (a
> > seventh
> > >year from a school which concentrates heavily on
> > the
> > >dark arts) to fall to the imperius curse and then
> > cast
> > >the cruciatus curse on a fellow student (i firmly
> > >believe that krum was trying to fight that hard).
> > >Based on this fact i dont think that the imperius
> > >curse is something that can just be routinely cast
> > by
> > >a wizard of diminished power of any sort. Simply
> > >because the battle of minds that the caster has to
> > >employ would be no small thing. (although JKR never
> > >gives us a look at the imperius curse from the
> > casters
> > >point of view) and there for it still stands. Why
> > >wouldn't young mr. crouch be just a little more
> > >apprehensive about the fact the harry could fight
> > it
> > >the very first time it was cast on him. You would
> > >think that after his master's downfall that the
> > death
> > >eaters and their master would be just a little more
> > >cautious about their actions. (and weaknesses) I
> > think
> > >the dark lord hasn't exactly done his homework.
> > >
> > >
> > >Scott
> > >--- "Cindy C." <cynthiaanncoe at home.com> wrote:
> > > > Scott wrote:
> > > > > what i amd wondering in concern to the whole
> > > > ordeal is
> > > > > not only why you young Mr. Crouch gave the
> > > > practice to
> > > > > Harry but also why is it that he didn't let
> > > > > he-who-must-not-be-named know of the threat?
> > > >
> > > > Lucy wrote:>
> > > >
> > > > > > The thing that really gets me, is WHY does
> > > > > > Crouch/Moody teach Harry how to throw off
> > the
> > > > > > Imperious Curse? He already knows Harry is
> > very
> > > > > > unusual, and plans to give him to Voldemort
> > to
> > > > kill,
> > > > > > so why on earth does he give him all that
> > extra
> > > > > > practice in that class to give Harry another
> > > > weapon
> > > > > > to use???
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hi Scott and Lucy,
> > > >
> > > > At the very real risk that this has been
> > discussed
> > > > before, I had a
> > > > thought.  I have always thought the reason
> > > > Crouch/Moody teaches Harry
> > > > how to resist the Imperio curse is because
> > > > Dumbledore asked him to,
> > > > or he thinks he needs to do it to stay "in
> > > > character."  I also
> > > > figured that Crouch/Moody wouldn't bother to
> > tell
> > > > Voldemort because
> > > > Imperio isn't a crucial component of Voldemort's
> > > > plan to kill Harry.
> > > >
> > > > But how about this theory instead?  Maybe the
> > > > Imperio Curse is only
> > > > as strong as the wizard casting it.  If so, then
> > > > Crouch/Moody
> > > > wouldn't need to worry about teaching Harry how
> > to
> > > > throw it off or
> > > > worry about telling Voldemort.  Voldemort is
> > much
> > > > more powerful than
> > > > Crouch/Moody, so even if Harry can resist
> > > > Crouch/Moody's Imperio,
> > > > Harry won't necessarily stand a chance of
> > resisting
> > > > Voldemort's
> > > > Imperio.  Should the day ever come (as it did)
> > that
> > > > Voldemort would
> > > > need to put Harry under the Imperio Curse, then
> > the
> > > > training Harry
> > > > received from Crouch/Moody still wouldn't be a
> > > > threat to Voldemort.
> > > > So there'd be no reason for Crouch/Moody even to
> > > > tell Voldemort about
> > > > the training, as it is unimportant.
> > > >
> > > > There is a teaspoon of canon to support this
> > idea
> > > > that the Imperio
> > > > curse is only as strong as the wizard casting
> > it.
> > > > Presumably,
> > > > Wormtail places Crouch Sr. under the Imperius
> > Curse,
> > > > and Crouch Sr.
> > > > is able to throw it off, and we know Wormtail is
> > a
> > > > "talentless thing"
> > > > (according to Sirius).  Also, we are told by
> > > > Karkarov that
> > > > Mulciber "specializes" in the Imperius Curse,
> > which
> > > > suggests that
> > > > there is some benefit from having your Imperius
> > > > specialist place the
> > > > curse on someone rather than having someone less
> > > > skilled or powerful
> > > > do it.
> > > >
> > > > Also, consider how long it takes various wizards
> > to
> > > > cast off the
> > > > Imperius curse cast by various wizards.  Crouch
> > Sr.
> > > > (powerful wizard)
> > > > is able to cast off Wormtail's (talentless
> > wizard)
> > > > Imperius Curse in
> > > > a few months.  Crouch Jr. (competent wizard)
> > takes
> > > > years to throw off
> > > > Crouch Sr.'s (powerful wizard) Imperius curse.
> > > > Crouch Jr. (competent
> > > > wizard) doesn't take chances and rely only on
> > the
> > > > Imperius curse to
> > > > control the real Moody (powerful wizard); he
> > stuns
> > > > him too.
> > > >
> > > > Of course, if this theory holds, then it is
> > proof
> > > > positive that Harry
> > > > is stronger than Voldemort, because he threw off
> > > > Voldemort's Imperius
> > > > curse in seconds.
> > > >
> > > > Does this theory add up?
> > > >
> > > > Cindy (as Bagman would say, "this should shorten
> > the
> > > > odds on Mr.
> > > > Potter")
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> >____________________________________________________________
> > > >
> > > > "I say to you all, once again--in the light of
> > Lord
> > > > Voldemort's return, we are only as strong as we
> > are
> >
>=== message truncated ===
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
>http://personals.yahoo.com

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp