Prayer ( Defintely On Topic)

[fourfuries at aol.com]

No: HPFGUIDX 26077

--- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Joy M" <joym999 at a...> wrote:
> --- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Hermione" <hermione at p...> wrote:
> > Dear Heavenly Father,
>  
> > Please ... create a prayer chain throughout this nation.
> 
> Please don't ask me to pray with you.  I know that, in times like 
> these, people take solace in their religion, and that brings them 
> strength and hope.  That is a good thing, for them.  But I am not 
> religious, and I never have been, and at times like these I am less 
> inclined than ever to be so.  

I am the last person that would ask another to pray, and knew when I 
saw the original post that someone would react badly. However, let's 
clarify a few things early, keeping on topic while we are at it, so 
that a flamer doesn't erupt now, at the least propitious moment.


> What kind of God do you all believe in 
> so much that allows lunatics to murder thousands upon thousands of 
> people?

The supreme challenge facing every living human being is the fact 
that we each enjoy absolute free will.  That is what the battle over 
good and evil is all about.  Good is the voluntary restraint from 
certain actions and activities that we are perfectly capable of 
engaging in.  Evil is the indulgence of those selfish tendencies that 
prevent us from showing restraint.  (See Minerva's comments to 
Dumbledore about the difference between Voldemort and Dumbledore's 
powers in the very beginning of PS/SS).

> The people who crashed those planes yesterday believed in 
> God, believed so much that they sacrificed their own lives, and 
> countless others, for His glory.

You are exactly right.  Part of the problem of free will is that we 
are free to convince ourselves of anything, and once convinced, no 
amount of facts or evidence an change our minds.  Barty Crouch and 
Cornelius Fudge both come to mind.  Truth, however, which is 
something more than facts or evidence, usually wins out.  It is to 
this truth that the supplicants of all peaceful religions appeal, 
that the superiority of patience, mercy, love and understanding be 
made plain and enjoy a vcitory over wrath, hatred, envy, etc.

> This tragedy has an all too human 
> cause, born of our human greed and lack of concern about the terror 
> and misery that exist in this world we have created.  Was your God 
> trying to teach us a lesson about this?  

"God", in the sense you seem to mean it, doesn't set up tragedies in 
order to teach us lessons.  Rather "He" is more concerned with 
helping us learn the right lessons from the things we choose teach 
ourselves.  Man is more than capable of generating evil.  Therefore 
no "god" need be responsible for the evils of the world.  It just 
goes with the territory when one becomes aware of the knowledge of 
Good and Evil, and has the power to exercise either.

As for greed, lack of concern, terror and misery and the world we 
have created, if there is a God and he cares that we learn the right 
lessons, then I certainly want him to know that I am in learning mode 
after a tragedy like this.  I am open to instruction.  That is what 
prayer is about.  It is an attempt to silence the mind, will and ego 
long enough to hear that "still, small voice" that some regard as 
belonging to conscience, some as belonging to truth, some to reason 
and some to the Father of Creation.

> If so, He probably won't be successful, since as far as I can see  
> most people want to respond with more killing and hatred.   So,  
> pray if it helps you, but, please don't expect me to join you. 
> --Joywitch

What the people desire is vengeance, victory and peace.  What the 
people pray for is wisdom, patience, love and understanding.  To the 
extent that the later inform the former, He may already have been 
successful.  In fact, he may have just used you to help make some 
important points.  Some where in this world, people are considering 
the points you have made, and adjusting their politics and their 
theologies accordingly.

So whether you pray or not, those of us in the community of faith 
value your spirited contribution, love you for what you have done, 
and count your spirit as aligned with ours in our prayer for peace 
and wisdom.

4FR On Topic