[HPforGrownups] Percy and Rules in HP

[porphyria at mindspring.com]

No: HPFGUIDX 37454

A little reply to the responses I got about Percy and Rules. 

Penny reminded me: 

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First, I just wanted to note that one of the Philip Nel discussion questions is on this topic, and Amy Z is scheduled to present & discuss it in about 4 weeks IIRC. Not that we can't have discussions now, but I know Amy won't want everyone to be all talked out on this ... <g>
>>

I apologize if I jumped the gun with this discussion. I originally did mean it as a response to the discussion on Percy, and that got lost in my long-windedness, so for now I'll try to coax the conversation back in that direction. I do think that rules and laws are a big theme in the HP series, and that there remains a lot to be said about it. But I think we at least need to be aware of how the rules issue is portrayed in order to really understand how Percy is depicted; I think the two topics are directly related. 

Anyway, I think that the way that we read Percy is very much influenced by 1) our own comfort level with 'going by the book' and 2) the way that JRK sets up the situation. I think that if I knew Percy in real life that I'd just think he was a good kid who was a little uptight but still loved his family above all else. I think the fact that as readers some of us can actually imagine that Percy is evil percolating up right before our eyes is the result of the way the books go out of their way to show that a blind adherence to rules, bureaucracy and authority is not just annoying, but catastrophic. So I wanted to call that to our attention. 

Of course part of it is we do see Percy through the eyes of Ron, and frequently in his interaction with the twins, all three of whom see him as an unwanted disciplinarian, an unnecessary parent. I'd like to see a little more of how he interacts with Bill and Charlie, who probably have a very different perspective given that he's their much littler brother and they never had to worry about living up to his reputation or obeying his direction. They seem amused by his fussiness when the interrupt his work with their flying table bashing, but they do cut it out once he expresses his annoyance at him. And the three of them seem to have some solidarity when the go after the rioters at the Quidditch Cup. Still, Bill at least is not averse to telling him to shut up when he yammers on and on. I wonder if they'll be a more supportive influence on Percy than Ron and the twins tend to be. They might have a better understanding of what he went through during his toddlerhood during LV's las!
t tenure.

***
I asked:
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Is the horror of Law and rule-abiding in the books justified? Do the books teach common-sense over blind following of rules, or to they promote a dangerous distrust of proper authority figures?
>>

And David answered:
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I'm not sure that the horror of rules is as strong in the books as you make out.  
>>

Ha, maybe not. :-) But I really think JKR has foregrounded it as a major theme. I grant you that she winds up having a common sense attitude towards whether to follow or tweak the rules on a case-by-case basis, but what I marvel at is how she goes out of her way to portray a world in which the legal system is so problematic and corrupt, and there is very little comfort to be taken in its institutions. Dumbledore is somewhat comforting, but even then he can get trumped by miscarriages of justice. I find the Potterverse very terrifying in that respect. 

David continued:
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I think there are three reasons that people follow rules in general:

because Rules are Good and Must Be Obeyed;

because they are supported by a system of rewards and punishments;

because in the big picture each rule has a reason for being there, and breaking it will lead to undesirable or even catastrophic consequences.

My view is that Percy is portrayed as being influenced by the first reason, but much of this has to do with the fact that we mostly see his interaction with Ron and the twins.  It does go further, as when he insinuates Arthur shouldn't have spoken after the World Cup, but it need not be the whole story.
>>

Me again:
I think if you ask Percy which reason influences him, he'll say the third. This is one of the reasons that I'm inclined (after some thought) to say he'll turn out alright in the end is because he does often fall into the category of having some sort of protective or well-meaning impetus behind his attitude. I don't think he's motivated solely by status, power, wealth or any of the other problematic attractions that some people associate with ambition. Surely those things must offer some comfort to him since he is from a poor family, but I think he actually has some good ideas that get overshadowed by his pompous attitude. His pontificating about the proposals he'd make about Magical Law Enforcement was in the wake of Sirius' escape from Hogwarts, which must have struck everyone out of the loop as quite frightening and irresponsible. Percy is upset that Bagman doesn't bother to look for Bertha, something that does turn out to be significant. And even his fussing over cauldron b!
ottoms, however much it's played for comic relief, has as its motivation an overreaction to a perceived danger. It's pretty funny, he starts by explaining himself by noting "leakages have been increasing at a rate of almost three percent a year" and then proceeds with "but unless some sort of international law is imposed we might well find the market flooded with flimsy, shallow-bottomed products that seriously endanger - ." It's a huge jump from one to the other but it's symptomatic of the type of alarmism that a legacy of LV in ones life might cause. Not to mention we'd better not let Neville use one of those cauldrons. :-) Anyway, I don't read this as Percy scrounging for power or status; this strikes me as someone who wants to make the world a better place and just gets a little hung up on the details of doing so. 

OTOH I do find worrisome his quickness to criticize his father for Rita Skeeter's offenses. But I'm hoping this is the sort of thing he gets over when he realizes that the MoM might not be his best friend. After his interrogation is over. (!)

Thanks everyone else who responded with your remarks on good and bad rule breaking. I do agree the books are teaching, as Gwen puts it, a healthy questioning of authority. I just think they're doing it in a provocative way that's worth examining. And I appreciate Ali's examples of how the WW might *need* to be harsher given its legacy of LV and the strength of the average wizard. Pippin: I'll try to read _ How the Scots Invented the Modern World _ in time for Amy's discussion. It sounds really helpful; there might indeed be a cultural or philosophical basis that I'm missing. Thanks!

~~Porphyria, who will now go on to contemplate Sleeping Women