Ginny (SHIP)

[Penny Linsenmayer]

No: HPFGUIDX 37556

Hi all --

Christine asked:

<<<I've noticed a lot of those who don't support H/G have made comments like this, and yet none of them have sufficiently explained _why_ they think it's too "sweet." Well, isn't romance _supposed_ to be sweet, at least on some level?  <snip> Now, what _I'd_ really like to know is where the heck this notion that the concept of Harry and Ginny is "too sweet" actually came from. It seems to me that the anti-H/G crowd has again chosen to take the bits of canon that they think support their view, without taking into account the totality of Harry and Ginny's individual _and_ shared experiences.>>>>

Oh, I'm all for romance being "sweet"!  Yes, definitely.  It's not H/G that I think is too sweet; it's OBHWF (One Big Happy Weasley Family).  Both R/H *and* H/G with the series ending with all the Weasleys, plus Harry & Hermione, sitting around a dinner table happily celebrating the engagements of R/H and H/G -- that scenario is what I find too sweet.  I think for most people OBHWF is either smile-inducing or makes them want to gag.  I fall into the latter category.  

I suppose, thinking out loud, that I wouldn't mind H/G as an ultimate outcome nearly as much if they had a mature adult relationship before committing to marriage.   Most H/H shippers, myself included, prefer to see the teenage characters be teenagers: date around, have fun (to the extent they can have fun during a War that is), grow up before committing to a romantic relationship.  Live a little in other words.  

On that note, I do note that I must respectfully disagree with Rohit on the following point(s):

<<<<Though, I'm gonna have to respectfully disagree on the notion that early marriage is not the norm--it may not be "the norm," but judging from the two most prominent examples we have of married wizarding couples (the Potters and the Weasleys), people do tend to meet their life partners while at Hogwarts (I believe it's in the 4th book that Molly is telling the kids how she and Arthur were caught by the old groundskeeper while on a midnight stroll way back...>>>>

Sure, Arthur & Molly *met* at Hogwarts (or before).  They obviously had at least one late-night "date" while still students.  But, we don't know (a) that neither dated anyone else beforehand, (b) that they dated exclusively, (c) that they moved straight from dating to marriage, or (d) that they married straight out of Hogwarts.  Those are a whole lot of unknowns in my book.  Ditto the Potters.  We've no idea that they dated *at all* at Hogwarts.  We don't know if they were the same year or not.  We don't know anything about who else they might have dated or when.  In the case of the Potters, we do know that they were reasonably young when they had Harry [this is based on Snape being roughly 35/36 at the time of GoF per JKR chat].  But, since they could have been 17/18 when they left Hogwarts, it's entirely possible that they didn't date at all until after Hogwarts.  So, I'm going to step out on a limb here & say that really we don't much of anything about dating, sexuality, marriage or divorces in the wizarding world.  This is all about to change because Harry is about to be interested in those types of things.  But for now, I'd say we have very little knowledge at all, let alone a sense of "norms."  

Someone (Finwitch?) mentioned that maybe Ron & Hermione might marry in 6th or 7th year at Hogwarts.  I can't imagine JKR doing this.  Even if the age of consent is 17 & even if wizards do marry earlier than muggles, one would hope (in my case one would hope fervently) that they would at least complete their basic schooling before taking on a marriage.  Yikes!  

Switching back to Christine -- this next bit is a quotation from "another poster on another forum that Christine visits."  This is a good time to remind everyone to be sure that you have someone's permission when you quote their posts from another group (I've had the bad experience of running into people quoting my posts on another group without my knowledge or permission).  Anyway, this person said:

<<<In GoF, we see her become less biasd in her feelings
>>towards Harry; the two are developing a very faint, yet still-there sort of
>>friendship rather than the "hero-worship" many label on Ginny.

I guess I'd have to wonder what sort of "still-there sort of friendship" this person sees since....well....we just don't see any one-on-one interaction between Harry & Ginny in GoF.  None that I recall anyway.  So ... I guess I'm mystified as to how one could make this statement.  Her one shining moment of glory (:::cough:::) is the pre-Yule Ball scene, and, of course, Ron and Hermione are both there for that conversation.  And, uh ... if Harry were having any conversations with Ginny or thoughts about Ginny, we'd know about it since the books are from his POV.  If nothing else, there'd be a throw-away reference to Harry remembering that he'd left his Divination homework in the Great Hall when he had breakfast with Ginny that morning.      

<<<<<<<< I think there is a great deal of _serious_ emotional potential in H/G that few (if any) outside of the ship have really taken the time to consider, much less openly
acknowledge, that can balance out this supposed "fluff factor.">>>>>>>>>

Sure, there's potential.  There's potential for a fair few number of pairings really.  I wrote a fairly detailed post about Ginny awhile back & strangely enough I came across it yesterday while searching the Archives for something unrelated.  Anyway, rather than rehash it all, it's at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/33194

I noted in that post that while JKR has done a really excellent but subtle job of conveying Ron's burgeoning romantic interest in Hermione, she has most definitely *not* done this with Ginny.  We get this slight sense about Ron's interest in Hermione in CoS, which increases ever so slightly in POA & then when we get to the Yule Ball of GoF, we're not at all shocked that Ron has an obvious crush on Hermione (even if he himself is blind to it).  However, with Ginny, JKR's not only not shown Harry ever have any thought whatsoever about Ginny as a girl (other than being mildly annoyed whenever anyone mentions her crush on him), she's also done nothing to develop Ginny as a character.  I still maintain that this is a possibly the biggest sign in my mind that H/G isn't likely to happen.  If we'd had even slightly more development of Ginny as a person, I'd be more open-minded about the possibility.  But, for now I just question why JKR would give so little development to Ginny if she did intend her to be the ultimate love-interest of the hero.  There needn't have been a tremendous amount of development, but I would think she would have spared more word allotment to rounding out Ginny's character, even gradually, than she has.  

rohit (columbiatexan) continues further:
> --someone on
> this list was quoted in the HPfGU FAQ deal as saying that the romantic
> pairings need to "raise the stakes" with regards to the plot--Rowling isn't
> just going to pair people off for romance's sake. 

Christine says:

<<<<Eh, I'm not too sure about that. While I don't think that Rowling is "just going
to pair people off for romance's sake," I also don't think that romantic
pairings are necessarily part-and-parcel to "raising the stakes" plotwise.>>>>>

Just to clarify, though I didn't make the point originally: what Ebony said was that conflict drives plot.  To the extent that the romance is to be anything more than comic relief/lightening the mood fluff, then there must be conflict.  Oh bother, I'm really not saying it quite as nicely as Ebony did originally, so just check out Message 10997 if you're curious:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/10997

Incidentally though, back to character development (or lack thereof), I guess I'd note that it seems to me that if Rowling's intent was simply to use the romance line as a minor "mood lightener" in an otherwise dark period in the series, I wonder why she would leave Hermione's romantic feelings so ambiguous.  I mean: why make Ron's interest so horribly obvious & leave Hermione's feelings such a wildcard?  Might it be conflict?  <g>  I'm sure there are lots of other reasons (and I'll get told there are), but I'm fairly convinced that if R/H was meant to be a foregone conclusion, we readers wouldn't be in too much doubt about it at this juncture.  I note that many fervent R/H shippers are willing to concede that Hermione's feelings are not clear-cut at this stage.  So, if all the romance is to do is lighten the mood, what would be JKR's motivation in hiding/clouding Hermione's interest level in Ron?  Why not depict it so that all the readers are thinking "Aww...isn't that *sweet* ...they both like each other but they're typical adolescents & don't know it yet"?  I mean, if it's *just* a mood-lightening subplot, why make it complicated, right?      

David said:
> Poor Devin got a lot of flack for pairing Ginny with Harry a few weeks ago
> because she is the only other character to have had a serious run-in with
> Voldemort.  I believe he is on to something, though.

Christine agreed:

<<<<*nods* As do I. Even if nothing romantic comes of it, there is the undeniable
fact that Ginny has had an experience that gives her an understanding of Harry
on a level that no one else has (at least, for the moment).>>>>>>

I'm sorry, but I always wonder about this whenever it gets raised because, well, Ginny was *unconscious* during the entire battle between Harry & Riddle in the Chamber.  She says that the last thing she remembers before losing consciousness was Riddle coming out of the diary.  So, I guess I'm always perplexed about this so-called "bond" between them.  Yes, she wrote in a diary & maintained correspondence with him over a period of months.  But, when he materialized, she faded to black.  :::shrugs::: 

Christine again:

<<<It's possible that Hermione's assured assertiveness might very well eat Harry's quiet introspection alive. Not a pleasant thought.>>>>>>>>>

Possible, but then again, isn't Ginny an extrovert too (Ron says she usually never shuts up right?)?  Or, is it that she's a chatterbox around her family but in general an introvert?  What *is* her personality type?  We don't know.  The bottom line is that we don't know Ginny much at all at this point IMO.  Yes, I know she's allegedly going to have a "bigger role" in OOP.  "Bigger than what" is what I'd like to know.  Bigger than CoS?  Bigger than her screentime in the entire series combined?  It really won't take much for her to have a "bigger" role IMO because so far, there's been very little development at all.  

Rohit said: > I'm actually really hoping Ginny doesn't end up with Harry, because I don't think they'll ever be on an equal footing

Christine asked: Why? Could you please explain how you reached this conclusion despite the obvious lack of canon evidence?

I just wanted to note that Rohit wasn't making a conclusion; he was stating his belief.  Beliefs don't generally require canon "evidence."  For the record, as I said earlier, I agree with Rohit to some extent.  We don't know enough yet though.  I don't think it's impossible that they could have a relationship with both of them on equal footing, but there's no indication of what Ginny brings to the table as yet.  IMO.

Penny
(who wants to comment on The Sleeping Woman posts but is too tired tonight.... and has no experience whatsoever with psycho-babble)    




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