Midnight in the Garden of Good & Evil (Nel Question - LONG)

Mon Apr 29 15:58:44 UTC 2002

No: HPFGUIDX 38289

This week's question from the Phil Nel database...

 Why has Rowling drawn connections between Voldemort and Harry?  In
linking these characters so closely, is she suggesting some kinship
between opposites?  Are good and evil bound closely together?  Can 
you think of other characters in the series who, though they appear 
to be opposites, are in fact more alike than we initially suspect?

********************************************************************

The connection between Harry and Voldemort is distinctly drawn in 
CoS, when Tom Riddle points out the similarities:

"There are strange likenesses between us, after all. Even you must
have noticed. Both half-bloods, orphans, raised by Muggles. Probably
the only two Parselmouths to come to Hogwarts since the great
Slytherin himself. We even *look* something alike . . ." (CoS 317)

What does Tom think these similarities mean?  What does Harry think
they mean?  What does Dumbledore think they mean? What do YOU think
they, and other connections that have been discussed in the books' 
subtext, mean? 

*******************************************************************
KINSHIP BETWEEN OPPOSITES
_The Double in Literature_ by Robert Rogers explores the phenomenon
of the literary double: two or more characters that appear to be
different aspects of a single self. A few of the types of doubles he
explores are the following:

The Mirror Image
Represented best by _The Picture of Dorian Gray_ by Oscar Wilde, the
Mirror Image is "not merely a similar self but an exact duplicate."
This kind of double is characterized by overt resemblance, 
narcissism,
and shared or complementary fates. (Strangely enough, twins don't
count as doubles.)

The Secret Sharer
Named after the Joseph Conrad story by the same name, the protagonist
recognizes a part of himself in the double and therefore feels he has
a secret kinship with his double.

The Antithetical Self
Often the most obvious kind of double, this double stands in an
antagonistic relationship with the hero but nevertheless is very much
like the hero, as if they were opposite sides of the same coin. (Post
38132 addresses the Harry/Voldemort connection rather well.)

Fragmentation of the Mind
Represented by _Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde_ and _The Three Faces of 
Eve_,
this kind of doubling results from dissociation, in which different
parts of the mind begin to act independently of one another.

Ambivalence
This type of doubling was demonstrated in a recent thread on Snape as
Father Figure [begins 37961]: a single "object" or external force (in
this case the Father) is fragmented and distributed among several
characters. The fragmentation highlights the protagonist's 
ambivalence
about the object.

We've already noticed an Ambivalence double (the Father), and
Voldemort is obviously an Antithetical double to Harry. Do any more 
of these types of doubles turn up in HP? 

ARE GOOD AND EVIL BOUND CLOSELY TOGETHER 

1. Characters
In Post 23737, Pippin wrote, succinctly, "In Rowling's world we have 
met no character who personifies the forces of good as thoroughly as 
Voldemort personifies evil."

Voldemort personified evil, that is clear. We have never seen him, 
in any of his incarnations, do anything that could be deemed 
deliberately good or helpful (although an argument can be made that 
he was inadvertently helpful to the students of Hogwarts back in the 
40s, when he managed to get Aragog out of the castle).

Have we, however, met no character who thoroughly personified the 
forces of good?
Harry? He's done some things which are against the law - wizarding 
and Muggle.
Dumbledore? He has probably violated the law in not reporting 
Sirius' location to the Ministry or reporting that he is an 
unregistered animagus, but he has good reasons for doing so, doesn't 
he? But what about the discussion we've had here about opportunities 
for machination behind the scenes? Is it good or evil to put 
adolescents in harm's way, even if it's for a noble cause? Many 
people on this list would probably frown at countries who allow 
children - 13, 14 - to become soldiers. Why don't we frown on a 
novel where an aged headmaster may have done the same sort of thing 
to an 11 year old - turned him into a soldier without even really 
explaining the battle he's to fight? When is such an act good? When 
is it evil?
Perhaps Lily will be the complete exemplar of goodness - but for us 
to accept that now would mean concluding that she didn't know that 
her husband was an unregistered animagus, which would then say 
certain things about *their* relationship, or that there is no 
obligation to turn in an unregistered animagus.

2. Actions & Words
On a smaller level, what determines whether an act is "good" 
or "evil"? Here's a set of examples from Book 3:
Harry is not supposed to go to Hogsmeade, but sneaks there via the 
Map, then uses the cloak to stay unseen. Is this good or evil?
Draco is allowed to be in Hogsmeade, and when he sees Harry there, 
knowing that Harry is not allowed to go, he tells on him to a 
teacher. Is this good or evil?
Ron lies to Snape to try to keep Harry from being punished. Is this 
good or evil?
Snape, who believes Draco's accusation, says mean things about 
Harry's father while accusing Harry of breaking the school rule. Is 
this good or evil?
Lupin chastises Harry for breaking the school rule. Is this good or 
evil?
Lupin, who knows that Harry broke the school rule, does not punish 
him in the traditional way, with detentions, or a report to his head 
of house or the headmaster. Is this good or evil?

How does someone's movitation affect whether an act is good or evil?
Lupin's motivation above may've been self-preservation; letting his 
higher-ups know about the rule breaking would've let Dumbledore know 
about the Map and perhaps about the Animagi as well.
Draco's motivation may've been to get Harry expelled; does a 
motivation make a "proper" or "good" act evil?

For more on motivation, read Peg Kerr's post here: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/1553.

3. Themes in Literature
One of the oldest themes in literature is the triumph of good over 
evil. While the HP canon is still open, and at this juncture, it's 
impossible to tell where good and evil stand on the continuum of 
each character (other than perhaps Harry and Voldemort), what 
factors do we, the readers, use to determine whether a character or 
an action is evil or not? In Book 3, even at the end, did anyone 
think that Harry's request to turn Wormtail in was anything but a 
good decision? What would the Diggorys say about that decision at 
the end of Book 4? 

OPPOSITES & SIMILARITIES

Do any of these pairs/groups function as doubles (they might not)? If
so, which kind? What function might this doubling have in the Grand
Scheme of Things?

Harry and James
Harry and Lockhart
Harry, Ron, Hermione
Dumbledore and Voldemort
Sirius, James, Peter, Remus (aka The Marauders) and their animal 
selves)
Harry and Draco
Ron and Draco
McGonagall, Snape, and Dumbledore
McGonagall and Trelawney
McGonagall and Hermione
Crouch Sr. and Ludo Bagman
Sirius and Snape
Lily and Hermione
Snape and James
Ginny and Lily
Snape and Lupin
Dudley and Draco

Anyone else?

1. Characters
In Post 23737, Pippin wrote, succinctly, "In Rowling's world we have 
met no character who personifies the
forces of good as thoroughly as Voldemort personifies evil."
Voldemort personified evil, that is clear. We have never seen him, 
in any of his incarnations, do anything that could be deemed 
deliberately good or helpful (although an argument can be made that 
he was inadvertently helpful to the students of Hogwarts back in the 
40s, when he managed to get Aragog out of the castle).

Have we, however, met no character who thoroughly personified the 
forces of good?
Harry? He's done some things which are against the law - wizarding 
and Muggle.
Dumbledore? He has probably violated the law in not reporting 
Sirius' location to the Ministry, but he has good reasons for doing 
so, doesn't he? But what about the discussion we've had here about 
opportunities for machination behind the scenes? Is it good or evil 
to put adolescents in harm's way, even if it's for a noble cause? 
Many people on this list would probably frown at countries who allow 
children - 13, 14 - to become soldiers. Why don't we frown on a 
novel where an aged headmaster may have done the same sort of thing 
to an 11 year old - turned him into a soldier without even really 
explaining the battle he's to fight? When is such an act good? When 
is it evil?
Perhaps Lily will be the complete exemplar of goodness - but for us 
to accept that now would mean concluding that she didn't know that 
her husband was an unregistered animagus, which would then say 
certain things about *their* relationship, or that there is no 
obligation to turn in an unregistered animagus.

2. Actions & Words
On a smaller level, what determines whether an act is "good" 
or "evil"? Here's a set of examples from Book 3:
Harry is not supposed to go to Hogsmeade, but sneaks there via the 
Map, then uses the cloak to stay unseen. Is this good or evil?
Draco is allowed to be in Hogsmeade, and when he sees Harry there, 
knowing that Harry is not allowed to go, he tells on him to a 
teacher. Is this good or evil?
Ron lies to Snape to try to keep Harry from being punished. Is this 
good or evil?
Snape, who believes Draco's accusation, says mean things about 
Harry's father while accusing Harry of breaking the school rule. Is 
this good or evil?
Lupin chastises Harry for breaking the school rule. Is this good or 
evil?
Lupin, who knows that Harry broke the school rule, does not punish 
him in the traditional way, with detentions, or a report to his head 
of house or the headmaster. Is this good or evil?

How does someone's movitation effect whether an act is good or evil?
Lupin's motivation above may've been self-preservation; letting his 
higher-ups know about the rule breaking would've let Dumbledore know 
about the Map and perhaps about the Animagi as well.
Draco's motivation may've been to get Harry expelled; does a 
motivation make a "proper" or "good" act evil?

For more on motivation, read Peg Kerr's post here: 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/1553.

3. Themes in Literature
One of the oldest themes in literature is the triumph of good over 
evil. While the HP canon is still open, and at this juncture, it's 
impossible to tell where good and evil stand on the continuum of 
each character (other than perhaps Harry and Voldemort), what 
factors do we, the readers, use to determine whether a character or 
an action is evil or not? In Book 3, even at the end, did anyone 
think that Harry's request to turn Wormtail in was anything but a 
good decision? What would the Diggorys say about that decision at 
the end of Book 4?

posted by Heidi and Dicentra