Snape and the Malfoys (was Re: Harry's Putative Death)

[porphyria_ash]

No: HPFGUIDX 42056

Darrin wrote, contending that Snape was surprised that Lucius 
rejoined the DEs:

<<
I agree it means Snape showed some poor judgement, but I think you're 
underestimating Lucius' charm and ability to convince. Arthur Weasley 
and Harry are predisposed to hate him anyway, because Lucius goes out 
of his way to needle Arthur and Harry is rivals with Draco.

But, when you're talking about neutrals or people who were once his 
friends -- or people who he has donated money to -- I bet Lucius can 
lay it on with a trowel.
>>

If we're underestimating Lucius' charm and ability to convince, then 
I wish JKR had given us more indication of it. We don't even see 
Lucius laying it on thick with Fudge; instead Fudge is flattering and 
deferential to *him,* evidently because of his contributions. The 
complete list of people who distrust Lucius on sight includes the 
whole Weasley clan, Dumbledore, Hagrid and *Fang.* Even Mr. Borgin is 
secretly hostile to Lucius; he's only deferential to him because he 
wants his business. Lucius stokes up resentment wherever he goes and 
he's condescending and hostile to nearly everyone we see him meet in 
canon. Also, Arthur doesn't simply dislike Lucius because Lucius is 
always taunting him about his poverty; rather, Arthur actively 
informs his family that Lucius was a big supporter of LV and was an 
unrepentant member of his inner circle. I doubt Arthur does this out 
of spite; it struck me at the time as gossip he'd know from his 
Ministry connections or his status as a member of Dumbledore's Old 
Gang. 

When do we see Lucius lay it on with a trowel? I agree that on some 
level JKR might want us to believe this, but the evidence we see is 
exactly the opposite. We see him use bribery and intimidation to get 
what he wants. When he wanted Dumbledore suspended from his 
headmaster position in CoS, he didn't cajole the other board members 
into doing so, he threatened to curse their families. That's not a 
sign of someone who uses a lot of charm. And of course he uses 
bribery to get box seats at the QWC, smooth his way out of 
prosecution and insure his son's position on the Quidditch team. Plus 
Lucius never takes any pains to disguise his hostility towards Harry, 
despite advising his son to do so. At the end of CoS he viciously 
inform Harry that he'll meet the same nasty end as his meddling 
parents, which rivals Draco himself for letting his true feeling 
erupt in public. 

Darrin wrote:
<<
And I'm not convinced Dumbledore told Snape about the diary. 
Dumbledore definitely operates on a need-to-know basis and if he had 
ideas of Snape someday being a plant in V-Mort's camp again, he'd 
want him as protected as possible from information that could betray 
him.
>>

Dumbledore operates on a need-to-know basis as far as concerns Harry, 
who is barely out of childhood. But I'm not sure that extends to 
Snape who is obviously his left hand man in many respects. I think it 
would be flinty if Dumbledore *didn't* tell Snape about the horrific 
actions of the most prominent parent/alum in House Slytherin.

Dumbledore and Snape do plot in secret, and they've been doing at 
least since all through GoF. Snape's Task was obviously the result of 
something they'd been working out in secret for some time. Also that 
year, Snape had been informing Dumbledore on potential LV supporters 
like Karkaroff, so to some extent he was already resuming his old job.

In fact I wouldn't be surprised to think that Snape had been telling 
Dumbledore that Lucius was bad news all along. This would explain 
Dumbledore's utter lack of surprise at Lucius' connection to Tom 
Riddle at the end of CoS. Granted Hagrid and Arthur know about 
Lucius' support for LV and his agenda, but you have to wonder where 
that knowledge came from in the first place. It seems plausible to me 
that it could have originated from a well-placed mole among the DEs 
who would know Lucius better even than Ministry gossip.

As Marina said:
<<
But Snape's a *spy*, it's his job to distrust everyone, to know who
the bad guys are, and not to be taken in by charm. And why would
Lucius try to charm Snape into thinking he isn't a true DE, if he
believes that Snape *is* a true DE?
>>

I agree completely. Snape isn't just competent; he is an extremely 
suspicious person. He always assumes the worst of Harry, not to 
mention Sirius, Lupin and Quirrell. Snape can tell when Harry is 
lying by noticing when he blinks. We've never seen him give anyone 
the benefit of the doubt. Even with Draco, I don't think Snape is 
*taken in.* Snape *favors* Draco, meaning he sides with him whether 
or not it's fair to do so, which is different from being snowed by 
his charm. I can't imagine how Lucius, given what we know of him, 
could succeed in fooling Snape. 

Nor, as Marina remarks, can I see any need for him to do so. Many 
former DEs snuck out of punishment by claiming Imperius, but I doubt 
they need to fool each other about it. Snape is certainly acting 
very 'grey' amongst his Slytherin charges. He gives them no 
indication of his true loyalty to Dumbledore, which makes me think 
that he's at least trying to appear potentially 'DE-friendly' to his 
students' parents. 

Darrin later remarked: 
<<
Giving Ginny that diary isn't technically doing Voldemort's bidding, 
at least not intentionally.
>>

I agree that Lucius did that for his own personal reasons, his 
vendetta against Arthur and his fear of the Ministry's interference. 
But it's still a pretty strong indication of what type of man Lucius 
is. He hates Muggle-born magical children to the point of scheming to 
kill them. He's still unaverse to criminal behavior, and he still 
supports one of LV's key appeals to his followers. To me that's a 
strong indication that he's not so 'reformed' that he won't at least 
ride along with LV should he return.

I agree that we really don't know if Snape's task is to spy again. 
But I also agree that Snape's 'sudden movement' is meaningful 
somehow, and that it points to Snape's past, present or prospective 
relationship with Lucius somehow. I have a feeling this is 
indicative of some future subplot between these two, which has 
already been hinted at in Snape and Draco's mutual displays of 
support for each other. I just don't think that Snape's reaction to 
Lucius' name is surprise or shock; I suspect it's some other strong 
feeling. 

I'm being argumentative with Darrin today, but someday I promise I 
will post all my support for his 'Snape hates teaching but is stuck 
at Hogwarts' theory, which I really do support.

~~Porphyria