Is Harry More Powerful Without a Wand? (WAS: Duel Harry)

[grey_wolf_c]

No: HPFGUIDX 43005

Phyllis wrote: 
> I'm of the opinion that this scene is just what JKR tells us it is:  
> Voldemort gives Harry his wand back "so there can be no doubt as to 
> which of us is the stronger". I don't see a need to read anything 
> more into this other than what I think is the obvious, which is that 
> Voldemort is an ego-maniac who needs to show his Death Eaters 
> that "the skinny little boy with no extraordinary magical talent" 
> will not be able to defeat the "greatest sorceror of all time" on a 
> level playing field. If Voldemort throws an AK at Harry while he is 
> still tied up and wandless, there would be lingering doubts among his 
> followers as to whether he could have killed Harry off if Harry had 
> not been at such an unfair advantage.

There are many things in Voldemort that don't match up with the loony 
ego-maniac as you put it (generally called "evil overlord"). The DEs do 
not need demonstrated that Voldemort can beat Harry in any sort of fair 
ground. They know that he should be able to do so, they want to know 
whether the boy is *killable*, not if he's a bad duelist (which is 
obvious, since he's 14, after all). He managed to destroy Voldemort 
once for reasons unknown, but one of those reasons was *NOT* bacause at 
15 months he was a better duelist than Voldemort.

Voldemort must have faced many challenges and doubts while he was 
creating his fear power base, and I'd imagine that a few candidates to 
DE were used as examples to the rest of them as to what would happen if 
they got out of line. There would've been no "lingering doubts" if he 
had killed Harry immediately while still tied to the gravestone. What 
would a DE think? That his Master is too evil to play nice? They 
already know it. That he's a backstaber? They already know that too. If 
someone even hints that Voldemort should have given Harry a chance, 
Voldemort wouldn't have to kill him, any other DE would do so first. 
After all, they're no softies. Any DE that expreses any kind of doubt 
would probably blasted into smitherins by Voldemort himself, and it has 
probably happened a few times, or he wouldn't be as feared as the DE 
let to know (my theory is that some are faking it, but others must be 
truely afraid, especially the ones that are not so sure that Voldemort 
really needs them).

According to your theory, Voldemort has to demonstrate he can beat 
Harry in a fair duel. If he wins, he demonstrates nothing: the DEs 
already know that he can beat everyone but Dumbledore. If he looses, 
there are lingering doubts, possibly a power coup, and certainly his 
entire network is lost. He has lost, thus, he's been defeated, since 
none of his DE trust him or his power anymore. This obviously hasn't 
happened. Thus, Voldemort wasn't trying to demonstrate that he's still 
the best duelist in the WW.

What was he doing, then? Well, he was trying to get rid of Harry, 
that's for certain, but he wasn't all that sure he could kill him. If 
he's so much into the "play fair" situation, why did he kill Cedric 
right away? He could've saved him for later, and demonstrate he can 
take two at the same time. But he doesn't need to. The DEs already know 
he can take two underage, only partially trained wizards. They want to 
know if Harry can be killed. And this is because Voldemort and the DEs 
are positively scared of Harry. They don't understand how he could 
survive an AK when he was a baby, and they certainly are not going to 
try use it on Harry until they are sure it is not going to back-fire on 
*them*.

Voldemort makes extra sure that the spells aren't rebounding from Harry 
before even trying to AK him. After all, a duel fair and square is a 
simple matter of who draws the faster AK, and yet Voldemort played with 
Harry. You could say it was out of cruelty, but then why did he stop 
where he did? Harry was still standing and the game was still fun. So, 
too much cruelty and too little at the same time. Only another 
interpretation makes sense: he was softening Harry and, as soon as he 
looked ready enough, Voldemort AKed him. Pity about the unexpected 
priori incantatum (the only thing that surprises Voledmort in the 
entire duel).

> Grey Wolf also wrote:
> 
> >The graveyard duel was carefully planned by Voldemort to reduce the 
> >danger to himself and maximize Harry's chances of dying.  <snip> He 
> >does not hit Harry with an AK as soon as Harry arrives:  if it 
> >rebounds and hits him or Peter, he's in trouble.
> 
> Me again:
> 
> The incantation Pettigrew uses when he takes Harry's blood is "Blood 
> of the foe, *forcibly* taken."  I think the reason Harry isn't 
> immediately AK'd is that if he were dead, taking his blood wouldn't 
> be by *force* and Voldemort's recorporation potion wouldn't have 
> worked.

The potion could have worked with the blood of any wizard. Why Harry, 
then? Because there is something that shields him from almost 
everything you can throw at him. And, since he's there all ready to go, 
why not slit his throat right away, instead of nicking him in the arm? 
Voldemort is not ready to kill him. They don't *think* they can kill 
him so easily, and they're not going to try. Harry is as difficult to 
kill as it can get, and Voldemort knows it because Peter, who has heard 
most of Harry's adventure while Scabbers the Weasley rat, knows.
 
> Grey Wolf again:
> 
> >He [Voldemort] doesn't even hit him with an AK as soon as he 
> >recorporates, but waits until he has made sure he can touch him, and 
> >yet still waits until he has debilitated Harry with Crucios for his 
> >body and Imperius for his mind.  Notice that when Harry survives all 
> >this, Voldemort shows no surprise: he had already planned this.
> 
> Me again:
> 
> I think, given Voldemort's past experience with his AK rebounding off 
> Harry, Voldemort had to be *absolutely* sure that he had broken the 
> protection Lily left in Harry via the "old magic" before he would 
> risk touching him.

Why did he make sure? Isn't he, in your theory, an evil megalomaniac 
supremely convinced of his own godlike powers? That's where the evil 
overlord idea really falls, in my eyes: an evil overlord believes he 
can kill anything, even after being beaten. An evil overlord believes 
that the potion will be enough, and that there is no need to continue 
playing. And if he wants to continue playing, out of sheer cruelty, he 
does not stop after only a cruciatus and a failed imperio. He keeps 
shooting cruciatus until his enemy begs for death.

Voldemort, however, feels the need to make sure. He calls for back-up, 
in case the kid manages to scape once again (pity that the DEs aren't 
going to risk their own necks by actually *aiming* at the boy). He 
makes him listen to a horribly long speech (he also feeds him what 
possibly amounts to a lot of misinformation just in case he happens to 
escape once again). Finally, he prepares to shoot magics against him, 
so the first thing he does is anulate all his innate, unfocused magic 
by putting a wand in his hand, thus making him think in spells instead 
of having him use that magics that have saved him several times so far. 
He hits him with debilitating curses: Cruciatus, that leaves him in 
very bad condition almost instantly and Imperius, which allows 
Voldemort to estimate how much strength is left in the boy. He goads 
him into facing someone who Harry cannot possibly out-duel, Voldemort, 
without any protection at all (Voldemort doesn't want his spell to hit 
the gravestone again). And as soon as the boy seems to get the courage 
to make a counter spell, he shoots the AK. 

This is not the work of an evil overlord, it's the work of an 
extremelly careful planner, one that has examined step by step his 
movements that night and which has planned almost every possible 
problem. He couldn't guess priori incantatem would happen (his reaction 
to it seems to indicate that he knows nothing of that effect), but he 
knows that Harry could well escape from him: it has hapened before, 
after all. Harry has faced trolls, Quirrellmort, quidditch games, a 
basilisk, 100 dementors, giant spiders, etc, etc. I'd say that there is 
a fair chance that he manages to escape once again, and Voldemort must 
believe it too.

> On the Imperius - I don't think Voldemort would have tried the 
> Imperius Curse if he knew in advance that Harry could resist it.  
> Back to my <Voldemort as ego-maniac> premise, I think Voldemort was 
> doing as much as possible to make Harry look like a fool and himself 
> as all-powerful (which is why he threw the Crucios and the Imperius 
> curses and made Harry's spine bend so he would bow - as I recall, the 
> Death Eaters laugh at this point).  So I think Voldemort is actually 
> embarrassed when Harry resists the Imperius, but covers it up well so 
> that he doesn't admit his humiliation in front of his followers. 
 
He is? Voldemort is not too good at hiding his emotions. While he's 
very surprised at both the priori incantatum light chain and net and 
later it's effects on his wand ("Voldemort's eyes widened in shock"), 
he seems neither surprised nor particularly affected by Harry's 
resistance of the Imperius curse. Almost like he already expected this 
to happen, which stands to reason since he probably told Crouch Jr. to 
try it on Harry, to test how far the protection goes.

After all, they know that the Imperius can be resisted and Voldemort 
doesn't want to enslave Harry, just kill him. He's not trying to 
humiliate him, because he has already rolling in the mud at his feet 
with the cruciatus. No, he's checking to see how much fight has Harry 
left in him. In fact, he decides that Harry posibly needs another dosis 
of Cruciatus, but Harry manages to dodge. Voldemort knows that if Harry 
doesn't face him, he'll probably forget about the wand and start using 
his real power, the power that once nearly killed him: the unfocused 
magic. So he taunts him to face him, and Harry willingly obeys, but as 
soon as he pops from behind the stone, Voldemort shoots the AK at him. 
Voldemort has run out of time, and if he doesn't finish with Harry 
right away, Harry will probably take flight.  

> Which leads me to ask:  How would Voldemort *know* that Harry would 
> be more powerful without a wand?
> 
> ~Phyllis

Voldemort, just like Dumbledore, has always fought with information. 
Knowing what your enemies are up to is the greatest power in the 
universe, and Voldemort and Dumbledore have both demonstrated being 
very good at the game. Voldemort knows about Harry thanks to Peter, as 
well as through many other possible contacts. They had Crouch Sr, so 
they could get whatever information he had. And Crouch Jr. working as 
Harry's teacher. And Voldemort could have contacted any number of his 
DEs while staring at that chimeny in the Riddle house. No, lack of 
ionformation is not a malady that affects Voldemort.

Hope that helps,

Grey Wolf, proud defender of MAGIC DISHWASHER