MAGIC DISHWASHER including: A Dumb question?

[grey_wolf_c]

No: HPFGUIDX 43215

Greg, asking about Voldemort's plans, wrote:
> Why, exactly, can he not kill the boy?  He has the boy, tied to a 
> gravestone, in the middle of a cemetary, miles from protection.  He 
> even has a knife Wormtail had for the ceremony to finish him off.  
> If Voldemort doesn't think Avada Kedvara will work, I think an 
> awfully bad way to find out for sure would be to do the same thing 
> that left him w/o a body for 13 years.  If he isn't sure that 
> magical methods will kill the kid, he's going to have to do it 
> eventually, why not do it now before he fully grows into his body.  
> Let's not forget that Voldemort considered a 1 year old Harry Potter 
> a big enough threat to get himself killed.  Why would a 14 year old 
> Harry Potter not be an infinately bigger threat, and if he plans on 
> allowing him to escape, a 20 year old Harry Potter an even bigger 
> threat than that?

You're confusing the issue. It is obvious that Voldemort *wants* to 
kill the kid but, as I've endlessly reapeated by now, he's *NOT SURE* 
he can do so. Harry was able to thwart him when he was one. Later, when 
he was eleven, he did so again. Before that, Harry had survived a troll 
and cunning traps by the teachers. After, he faces and wins against a 
basilisk, a giant spider, 100 dementors, a dragon, etc. 

If I was Voldemort, I wouldn't be sure I could kill the brat. It's not 
a matter of thinking "he's been lucky", because that would make him 
fear the encounter even more. Harry is *difficult* to kill. Voldemort 
knows that, and thus he plans accordingly. He might have tried using 
the knife after the failed AK, but he had no chance. All MAGIC 
DISHWASHER says is that Voldemort had included in his plans the very 
real posibility of Harry's escape, and thus he had made it a win/win 
situation: if he kills the brat, great. If not, he misinforms 
Dumbledore.

I, on a previous post, said:
> > And the fact is that events prove him 
> > right: he is unable to kill the boy in the graveyard, but even if 
> > he *had* killed him, his plans would've still have included the 
> > posibility of escapaing. Voldemort cannot see the future. He plans, 
> > and prepares contingency plans. Which means, in this case, that he 
> > planned to resurrect and then, once resurrected he planned *trying* 
> > to kill the brat, but also feed him false information *just in 
> > case* Harry happened  to scape again. 

Greg Again:
> Here's my other big problem w/ this whole idea.  I'm coming up w/ a 
> big blank on any important information Harry brought back.  Names, 
> but Dumbledore (via Snape) probably knew about all of them before, 
> and unless Voldemort wants to get rid of his followers I can't 
> really imagine why he'd be jumping up & down to pass this 
> information along to Dumbledore.  And the other thing was his plans 
> to recruit the Dementors & Giants, which, to my recollection, 
> Dumbledore assumed Voldemort would do w/o ever having to ask Harry.

*PLEASE* read post 40044 For the long list of all the possible 
misinformation Voldemort gave Dumbledore through Harry. I'm not going 
to repeat it here. My rambles are long enough on their own without 
adding old posts under me. If, for some reason, you're unable or 
unwilling to go into webview long enough to read those posts, mail me 
and I'll send them to you, but these posts are long enough on their own 
without adding 5000 words essays under them.

Greg still:
> If Voldemort had started to rant and rave about every witch & wizard 
> he was planning on killing & in what order, that'd be one thing.  
> But the information that Harry brought back, just does not seem 
> anywhere near as important as his death would be.

Probably not, no, but *if he's unable to kill Harry*, which seems a 
very valid possibility, it's better than simply letting Harry go, and 
having him draw his own conclusions. Besides, are you sure he called 
all his DE? Notice that all the names are of famous DEs, that Harry 
might have heard from other sources, as Fudge points out: he isn't 
telling Dumbledore anything he didn't already know by naming them, but 
keeps to himself the names of a few other DE, and it's altoghether 
possible that he didn't call *all* his DEs to the graveyard (he 
could've spoken privately to some of them and especifically tell them 
to disregard the tattoo call).

Greg a last time:
> (I remember the post about there being more to the shack scene that 
> was just on the surface, but a brief summary of the "Magical 
> Dishwaser" sure would be nice.)
> 
> Greg

You've got a nice summary I wrote myself on the first half of MAGIC 
DISHWASHER in post 39854. It's long, but that's only to be expected: 
the thread is 100+ posts long. I might do a resume of the second part, 
especially now that it has been reborn, but don't expect it to be 
brief, either. For one thing, it takes me about 100 words just to clear 
my throat, and for second, I always try to be thorough, which normally 
oposes brievety.Also, I'd have to wait for the creator of the theory to 
give me her views on some of the issues.

Eloise wrote:
> I'm sure that this has been covered, somewhere in the vast collection 
> of posts that is the MAGIC DISHWASHER, but indulge me, please. (Or at 
> least point me to the relevant post!)

Why, of course, Eloise, that's what I'm here for! I'm the official 
guide to MAGIC DISHWASHER, and I understand that from the outside it 
may seem to big to know fully.
 
> Thinking about Portkeys just then made me wonder...
> What part of the plan covered the possibility of Cedric (or one of 
> the other Champions) and not Harry touching the Triwizard Cup? Or was 
> Crouch/Moody just too arrogant to consider the possibility that he 
> couldn't guarantee Harry getting there first?
>
> It very nearly happened, didn't it? If Cedric had been less noble 
> about the whole thing, he alone would have been transported to the 
> Graveyard. What then?
> 
> Eloise

The part of the plan that covered Cedric was the "Croch!Moody will help 
Harry win the tournent". We don't really know what Crouch was thinking 
when he was seing that situation, but I'd say that if Cedric had 
decided to grab the cup on his own, he would summarly be put down with 
a good hex. I'd go for an Imperius, so it wouldn't look too strange. 
For all we know, that imperius *was* in place, although I doubt it 
(mainly because Crouch is no friend of the Imperius curse). Maybe 
Crouch know Cedric well enough to know that, as a Hufflepuff, he would 
put his debts before his desires and thus didn't do anything about it, 
expecting that foreviewable "lets make it a draw" idea.

Hope that helps,

Grey Wolf

-----------------
For the original posts on (what later became) MAGIC DISHWASHER check 
messages #39662 (spying game part I), #39854 (re-cap on spying game 
part I) and #40044 (spying game part II).