SHIP: Couples in the Potterverse (correction on Minerva's meaning)

[Linda C. McCabe]

No: HPFGUIDX 48035

I've been so far behind reading this list for months, I'm just going to try
and jump in where I have an opinion on a recent topic.

The quickest thing up front is to correct Ashfae's posting on: "if Minerva
McGonagall is the virgin goddess of the hunt I shall be very surprised."  I
would be too since that role belongs to Artemis/Diana and not
Athena/Minerva.  (I prefer the Greek over the Roman myths.)  And since I'm
taking the online persona of Athena who happens to be my favorite of all the
myriad goddesses, I know for a fact that Athena was the goddess of wisdom
and victory.  She also dealt with artistry and was involved in weaving -
leading to the forceful transfiguration of Arachne who had dissed not only
Athena but all of the Olympian gods and goddesses by a blasphemous tapestry.
Hmmm, Transfiguration, yes it is fitting.  And contrary to other listies
opinion's I still maintain firmly that Minerva McGonagall is not Ever So
Evil!

(BTW - small OT - is this the Ashfae of the Triple-S boards?)

And as for the discussions of whether JKR is indicating Hr/R, H/Hr and H/G
for future novels, I hadn't put much thought into that until I wrote a
fanfic and decided I wanted to have Harry fall in love.  Heck, I think the
poor boy's going to be decapitated at the end of Book 7 so I'd like him to
have a full life and to love and be loved in return.  Call me a sap.
Anyway, I wound up examining the different females characters in canon and
realized that it worked best with Hermione.

Someone early on in this discussion had brought up Ron's embarrassment when
Hermione hugged him in PoA and had said that Hermione had hugged Harry many
times and he was never embarrassed.  WRONG!  Thanks for playing.  How about
the very first time she hugged him?  That was at the end of PS/SS p. 286 in
Scholastic pb version, right before they both drink the potions.

***
Hermione's lip trembled, and she suddenly dashed at Harry and threw her arms
around him.

"Hermione!"  (italicized in book)

"Harry -- you're a great wizard, you know."

"I'm not as good as you," said Harry, very embarrassed, as she let go of
him.

"Me!" said Hermione.  "Books!  And cleverness!  There are more important
things -- friendship and bravery and -- oh Harry -- be careful!"

***

Hmmm, to me it looks like Harry was more embarrassed by her hugging him than
he was nervous about meeting Snape (which of course was Quirrellmort.)  And
then the next book where one would expect Hermione to hug Harry, after she
was unpetrified - she didn't.

p.339 Scholastic version

Harry had been to several Hogwarts feasts, but never one quite like this.
Everybody was in their pajamas, and the celebration lasted all night.  Harry
didn't know whether the best bit was Hermione running toward him, screaming,
"You solved it! You solved it!" or Justin...

(Interesting contrasting that to the MWMNBN in that she didn't hug him in
the first one where it was specifically mentioned in the book and then she
does in the second one where it is not in the book.)  But my reading of this
is that she recognized his embarrassment after her first hug when his life
was in peril and she then started feeling very insecure about herself.  She
wanted to remain his close friend, so if she did hold any romantic feelings
towards him that she'd keep them close to her vest.  And that's why she *did
not* hug him at the end of CoS. (I think she started falling for him right
after he jumped on the troll's back to save her life.  What a brave and
stupid thing to do, then they became friends.  But I think that's when she
first started caring for him romantically.  Well, as romantic as an eleven
year old girl can be.)

So on to the Ron/Hermione attraction.  Yes, I see it in GoF, but...I don't
know if Hermione feels that way towards Ron.  If I were her, I'd be mightee
insulted by him.  I think that Ron has repeatedly insulted her over the
years and she's been very hurt by that.  Then this is taken to a new level
before the ball when Ron thought that Hermione lied to Neville because no
one would want to go with him the ball.  Ron couldn't bring himself to
believe that anyone else had even considered asking Hermione.  Why is that?
Because she didn't even rank high enough on the good looks scale for him.

That was demonstrated by his rejoinder after she told him that she was going
with someone, "No, you're not!" said Ron.  "You just said that to get rid of
Neville!"  Read:  Who the Hell besides Neville would ask you out?

That would make him get under my skin because he's openly and repeatedly
insulting me.  And he also insulted her before he even deigned to ask her
out.  That was on pages 394-5 when Ron said, "We should get a move on, you
know...ask someone.  He's right.  We don't want to end up with a pair of
trolls."

Trolls.  You know the twelve foot mountain troll that almost killed Hermione
back in book 1?  The nasty, smelly, foul creature who terrorized her.  Ron
didn't even consider asking Hermione, he was concerned about not having to
go out with a troll.  Hermione wasn't even on his radar screen even though
she was supposedly his other best friend.  I'd be mighty insulted by that
exchange.  He compounded his insult by describing Eloise Midgen in very
uncomplimentary terms - someone who Hermione thinks is "really nice."  Looks
are more important to him than anything else.  And females, especially
bookish females can feel very insecure about their own looks.  That
conversation wouldn't endear him to me in the least.

Scholastic. p. 394

"Oh I see,"Hermione said, bristling.  "So basically, you're going to take
the best-looking girl who'll have you, even if she's completely horrible?"

"Er - yeah, that sounds about right," said Ron.

"I'm going to bed," Hermione snapped, and she swept off toward the girls'
staircase without another word."

***

You Go Grrrl.

But I think she's also hurt that both of her close male friends seem now
interested in girls and demonstrate that by staring at other girls.
Hermione would have noticed that Harry slopped water down his shirt when he
waved to Cho at the Quidditch World Cup.  As well as her being exasperated
with both Ron and Harry after their reaction to Veelas at the same match.
She pulled Harry back to his seat and said, "Honestly."

Maybe she did want Ron to ask her out and not as a last resort.  I don't
know.  But after the troll crack and the doubting that anyone else besides
Neville would ask her out - I'd be damned pissed at him.  I'd also be
re-evaluating any attraction I felt towards him.

They argue hotly during and after the Yule Ball, but...that doesn't mean she
likes Ron.  And after the publication of the article in Witch Weekly Ron is
pulverizing the counter with his pestle half a foot from his beetles.  She
avoids his eyes because he's glaring at her and crushing the desk with a
pestle.  I'd avoid looking at someone in the eye who was visibly angry with
me.  Hermione is embarrassed to talk about this and blushes - which could be
that she doesn't want to admit it in front of Ron *or* Harry.

I think one of the purposes of that Rita Skeeter article was to point out a
love triangle - even though Harry doesn't see it.  Something that Hermione
feels towards Harry.  He even denies it to Viktor who proclaims that
Hermione talks to him all the time about Harry.  I know that when I am
talking with a guy (especially an attractive one that I've just met) that I
want to make sure he realizes that I am not available, I will make some
reference to being married.  Long time ago, I'd say something about 'my
boyfriend'....maybe she's being subtle and always talking about Harry to let
Viktor know that she's not really interested in him.  Viktor only asks about
Harry and not Ron.  To me that's significant, if she were trying to send a
signal to Viktor that she really wasn't interested in developing a
relationship with him.  If she were interested in Ron, then Viktor might
have asked Harry about a certain red haired guy that Hermione was always
talking about.

I also wonder how often Viktor and Hermione really talked because all we kno
w about is when he asked her out, the Yule Ball, and the Second Task.  From
the conversation between Krum and Harry before Crouch, Sr. appeared, it made
it seem like there must have been more interactions between the two.  Makes
me wonder, but it's just not described in the text.

She may have mixed emotions about Ron *and* Harry which I think is probably
closer to the truth.  I know when I was in high school I was so afraid of
rejection that I actually had several guys that I was interested in
simultaneously.  I was hoping that one of them would be interested in me,
but that never materialized.  That's because I was the brainy outspoken
female that intimidated the hell out of the guys.  NOT unlike a certain
brainy female of the HPverse, hence why I seem to identify with her a lot.

Anyway, I wouldn't doubt that she is attracted to both Harry and Ron.  It's
just that from her perspective it doesn't look like Harry is ever going to
notice her in that way which then makes Ron a more likely target for her
attention.  That doesn't mean that she wouldn't rather having Harry as her
boyfriend.  And since it's through Harry's POV and we're still impatiently
waiting for book 5 - we won't really know for awhile how it'll play out.

I personally don't think she cares at all about Viktor.  He asked her out
and she said 'yes.'  Why?  Because she was
1) wanted to go to the Yule Ball with someone
2) was afraid no one else would ask her because she's such a brainiac
3) knew that she'd be the envy of the school if she went with Krum

Selfish reasons, but it also felt good that someone had noticed her.
Someone that legions of girls were swooning over because he was a celebrity.
It certainly wasn't because of his looks.  Remember, Hermione's initial
response to seeing a picture of Krum was to say he looked "really grumpy."
She's nice to Viktor, but I don't think she's interested in him.

As for how Harry feels about Hermione?  He did say that she was pretty at
the Yule Ball.  At first he said it was a pretty girl with Krum that he
didn't know.  Then later he realized it was Hermione his jaw dropped.
Because she didn't look like the Hermione he knew at all.  And entire
paragraph of how she looked and how "Harry couldn't understand how he hadn't
spotted it before."  Now he's still crushing over Cho, so he's not about to
switch his romantic interest in one fell swoop...but I just don't see that
he'll get together with Cho after Cedric's death.  I think Cho would be too
scared to even think about dating a guy who was with her last boyfriend when
he was murdered.  She'd probably be worried about her own safety with a guy
that seems to have a big Death Wish hanging over his head.

There's also the difference in politics between Ron and Hermione.  She is
very interested in the social welfare of house-elves.  He decidedly is not.
He doesn't care one bit, but humors her and buys a badge basically to shut
her up.  William Lloyd Garrison once gave an extemporaneous speech regarding
women's suffrage and compared its horrible reception by society with those
who were opposed to the abolition of slavery.  He called it "intelligent
wickedness."  That there are those who reject the light and knowingly commit
evil.  If they were simply ignorant than when they were shown the light they
would recognize their error of their ways and work to repent and change.
Those that reject the light will foam and fulminate in response and use
brickbats.  I'm not saying that Ron is eeeevil when it comes to house-elves,
but he didn't react the way that is someone who is shown the light and
recognizes that they were wrong.  Instead he is very defensive and offensive
on this matter.  I still think that is very important and telling as to how
R/H could work or not work as a couple later on.

If my husband were rabidly anti-abortion - we would not be able to live in
the same house let alone be a couple.  That's because I'm a strong and vocal
feminist.  It would be explosively bad, bad, bad.

And as for Harry/Ginny, to draw them together they'd actually have to you
know, umm, talk to each other.  I don't see much of that happening.  Harry
seems to hang around the Burrow at times over the summer and Ginny's in the
background blushing and closing doors, but not really putting herself out
there to get acquainted with him.  Then again, he's now been able to see her
in the common room and at the meal table for three years, but it doesn't
seem like he knows her all that much.

Harry does not seem all that interested in striking up conversations with
the little sister of his best friend.  She just seems to be there in the
background at times and fawning over him.  To me, it just doesn't seem like
there's going to be much there.  Unless of course she starts developing a
killer figure and Harry realizes that having someone who looks like that
wanting you is not a bad thing.

I did a passage in my fanfic where Harry thinks about how Ginny has been
crushing on him for years.

"Harry had never really paid that much notice to her before because he had
always felt embarrassed by the attention she paid to him.  His first day of
school she had practically squealed with delight when she heard that Fred
and George had met him.  She wanted to go on the train to meet a celebrity,
but not the skinny little lost boy she had seen only minutes earlier.  By
the time he saw her the next year at the Burrow he knew that she had been
fantasizing about Harry The Boy Who Lived Potter for almost a year.
Between Rons letters home and their mums knitting a Christmas present for
him, Ginny had to have heard a lot about him.  She had to have dreamed about
meeting him.  Then when he came to her house the next summer after being
rescued by her brothers, he was transformed from an invincible hero into a
pitiable orphan starved by nasty relations.
Harry knew that Ginny had idolized him even before Tom Riddle told him that
she had spent countless diary entries detailing her feelings for him.  Then
he wound up saving her life and becoming her Saviour.  He knew that she was
in love with him, but he was afraid that she was only in love with the
Legend and not the person.  This is what made him feel uncomfortable,
because he felt that it would be impossible to live up to her expectations."

Ginny would need to show that she is more than just a lovestruck fan, but
truly someone who cares for Harry for being the brave, cute, funny guy that
he is.  Knobbly knees, cowlick and all.

But he doesn't seem to notice her much.  I just skimmed the QWC stuff and
she's barely mentioned in passing.  In Harry's POV, she doesn't do much
worth commenting on.

Anyway, it was kind of fun going over the ambiguous canon on this matter.
Frankly, JKR can go anyway she wants on this.  I just really hope that Harry
is allowed to experience love before she kills him off.  I also want Sirius
to drop his convict-on-the-run look and hopefully get exonerated in book
five.  Please, Jo let him stop living off rats!

Athena

http://www.schnoogle.com/authorLinks/L_C_McCabe/