Lupin is James

[sharana.geo <sharana.geo@yahoo.com>]

No: HPFGUIDX 48845

silveroak_us wrote:

>Small, teensy, itsy-bitsy problem, IMHO...
>
>During the confrontation between Voldemort and Harry near the end 
of 
>the fourth book, Voldemort's wand shows its previous spells. These 
>include the deaths of Cedric, Lily, and James(!) This would 
>constitute pretty strong proof that James died when Lily did.
>(I will gloss over the apparent inconsistency in some editions of 
the 
>fourth book concerning the order of Lily's and James's deaths)

Me:
Yes you are completely right about this, but there is one possible 
explanation. I believe that Lily and RealRemus being dead still feel 
the need to protect RealJames identity (for some reason we will find 
out later).

When Cedric died he asked Harry to take his body back to his 
parents. After James came out of the wand he told Harry that the 
Portkey was set to go back to Hogwarts. They show at least some 
level of conscience about what is going on in the living world. I 
admit that the "echo" concept as Dumbledore later explains to Harry 
is confusing to me, for these shadows that came out of the 
Voldemort's wand are not ghosts per se. Maybe the shadow is of the 
body that died, not of the soul of the person who died. (Yes, just 
guessing, we don't know anything else about it).

GoF (US Hardcover Ed): Ch 36: The parting of ways. Page 697 -698:
"No spell can revive the dead " said Dumbledore heavily. "All that 
would have happened is a kind of reverse echo. A shadow of the 
living Cedric would have emerged from the wand... am I correct 
Harry?"
"He spoke to me," Harry said.  "The... the ghost Cedric, or whatever 
he was, spoke."
"An echo," said Dumbledore, "which retained Cedric's appearance and 
character..."

Now that you mention the inconsistency in early editions of the 
order of Lily's and James's deaths, you got me thinking there...

Page 667 says:
"Your father's coming... " she said quietly. "Hold on for your 
father... it will be all right... hold on..."

I imagine that in the early editions, it said something like: 
"Your mother's coming..." He said quietly. 
Which would make much more sense if RealRemus was saying it than 
RealJames.

Going back to the most recent editions, Lily says "Hold on to your 
father" as trying to give Harry more strength (remember in PoA 
TimeTurnerHarry was eager to see if it was really his father who had 
cast the Patronus and when the Dementors get near Harry he hears his 
mother scream but he has less feedback on his father). Maybe Lily 
and FakeJames knew it was important to keep RealJames secret 
identity and that it was important to keep Harry concentrated on the 
connection of the wands. Revealing the truth to Harry at that point 
would be both dangerous for Harry and would be a revelation to 
Voldemort. Anyway it is just an interpretation.



Chealsea wrote:
>The only problem with the James/Lupin switch theory, (as you were 
saying that 
>perhaps James goes off during the full moon to make the it seem as 
though he 
>were a werewolf, or that he can transform at will) is that during 
PoA, when 
>Harry and Co. are leaving the Whomping Willow, and making their way 
towards 
>the castle, Lupin begins to transform.

and Sherry wrote:
>1. Why then does FakeRemus turn into a werewolf?
>
>Since James was an animagus, maybe being in Lupin's body gives him 
the
>ability to transform into a wolf at will (rather than a stag), and 
he used the
>full moon as a ruse to leave the scene.  He is really not a 
werewolf, but
>rather a wolf animagus.  He also takes Snape's wolfsbane potion to 
keep his
>cover, since Snape knew Lupin was a werewolf and was likely the 
most vocal
>opponent to Lupin's appointment

Me:
I don't think James can control Lupin's body at will. I just believe 
their souls (with their intelligence, knowledge, abilities and 
whatever else) changed bodies. Lupin is a werewolf because he was 
bitten by one when he was a kid; it is a biological condition (like 
women's PMS). Being a werewolf is not part of Lupin's soul, it is a 
biological problem. James being in Lupin's body cannot control it 
better than RealRemus could. He just turns into a werewolf when the 
moon smiles at him :-). 


I don't even dare to say that FakeRemus can animagate into a stag, 
as we know it is a very complex procedure and we don't know what it 
involves, but I do believe his Patronus is a stag, because the 
Patronus reflects at some level your personality (which is part of 
your soul, you could say) so that doesn't change (sorry can't 
remember where in canon it says something like this). We never get 
to see Lupin cast his Patronus.

Sherry also wrote:
>Why can't Harry stay with Lupin, since if he is really James, he 
would be a
blood relative?
>
> There is some reason why Harry can't know that Lupin is James, 
which will
>be revealed in a later book (I'm thinking book 7; Harry will be 
denied his
>father until he no longer needs him).

Me:
I do believe that it is important to keep James identity secret for 
now. Why? Could be many reasons. It is a hidden card Dumbledore and 
James (and unknowingly Harry) have against Voldemort. For some 
reason the Potters are very important. Voldemort sometimes gets 
careless with little details and if he is caught off guard, the good 
guys have a better chance to win. Although I don't think it has to 
be until Harry no longer needs his father.


Sherry again:
>3. Why has FakeLupin been living like a pauper if he has all of 
James' money?
> 
>3a. He wants Harry to have all his money.
>3b. He gave Dumbledore his only vault key and can't access his 
money.
>3c. Accessing his vault would blow his cover as Lupin.
>3d. He has been accessing his vault all along, but has been taking 
only enough
>to survive.  Harry wouldn't notice this because he has no idea how 
much money
>was in there to begin with, and wouldn't know if a few Galleons 
went missing.

Me:
Good guesses although I think 3a and 3b wouldn't be enough reason. I 
think 3c is the best reason of all. 3d could happen but I believe 
FakeLupin wouldn't go to the vault directly but have Dumbledore (or 
Dumbledore have Hagrid) do it for him, to not blow his cover.


Sherry wrote:
>I'm also curious as to who you think knows about this switch (you 
said Lily was
>the only one who knew at the time, which means that the only person 
who knew
>and is still alive is FakeLupin).

Me:

Other than James and Remus, I believe Lily knew for two reasons:
1.- For er... Marital reasons ;-) 
2.- Lily obviously wouldn't betray her husband and son, her 
sacrifice gave Harry extra protection. She could be trusted.

To say someone else knew about it at the time the switching took 
place would be guessing. Probably no one else did (they were doing 
secret stuff to protect themselves as they knew there was a spy 
between them). But I think it would be reasonable to think that 
RealJames told Dumbledore some time later (if not before) about the 
switch (When? Beats me). Remember in SS/PS when Harry receives his 
father's Invisibility Cloak, Dumbledore writes he received it from 
James before he died. Dumbledore couldn't say it was after he died 
as that would raise some awkward questions. And he has the Potter's 
vault key. I believe Dumbledore knows now. Someone else? Don't think 
so. By canon you could conclude that Snape and Trelawny DON'T know. 
Definitely.

Sherry again:
> Dumbledore has a reason to trust a werewolf
>to the extent that he hired Lupin; maybe he knows about the 
switch?  Maybe the
>switch mitigates or eliminates the werewolf transformation, leading 
Dumbledore
>to trust him. 

Remember in the Shack Lupin tells Harry that Dumbledore gave him a 
chance to study at Hogwarts, planting the Whomping Willow and 
spreading rumors about how haunted the Shack was so Lupin could go 
there during his werewolf cycle. I believe Dumbledore has always 
trusted Lupin and that trust has nothing to do with the Switching. 
And the switching does not eliminate the werewolf transformation (as 
I said before).


Sherry:
>You seem to believe that Sirius figured it out in the Shrieking
>Shack.  Anybody else?  And what does this mean for the speculations 
about what
>Lupin has been doing for the past 12 years?  If he's not really a 
werewolf, he
>wouldn't have any problems getting a job, except that James didn't 
need to work
>and may not have any marketable skills.

Me:
Yes, Sirius reactions seem to indicate (to me at least) that he 
figured it out at the Shack. He is a smart guy and very close friend 
to James, to the point of being asked to be the Potter's Secret 
Keeper. I don't think that anyone else in the Shack realized it, 
because they just didn't think too much about it. (Sirius and 
RealJames have had 12 years thinking about who betrayed them). Peter 
(that RAT!!!) was too terrified to think much about it and the kids 
were receiving too much information and were utterly confused about 
everything. Haven't you realized that sometimes the kids could have 
the chance to ask some important questions about things that have 
happened and they just don't do it? Maybe it's because they are 
kids. I think that eventually any of them could have arrived to the 
same conclusion, but then RealJames "casually" asked Sirius if 
Sirius thought him to be a spy, misleading the thoughts of the 
others and cutting off that loose end. Oh, Snape hadn't arrived yet 
so he didn't hear that part of the conversation.

What has Lupin been doing the last 12 years? Good question. Some 
activities I can think off are:
1.- RealJames has trouble adapting to his new body with werewolf 
cycles.
2.- RealJames must be REALLY depressed by the death of his wife and 
the betrayal of his best friend (remember that all those years he 
thought it was Sirius who betrayed him, he realized it was Peter 
when he arrived at the Shack and saw that the Rat was still hiding 
himself). Imagine all the inner turmoil that comes with these 
thoughts, adding the fact that he couldn't protect his family.
3.- RealJames must act like Lupin to keep his cover.


Sherry wrote to my question on how did the time loop begin as I 
believe that the first time Harry sees the Patronus cast by whom we 
later find out was himself, was not himself but truely his father:

>I'm not so sure about this one.  As a sci-fi fan myself, I see this 
as a
>classic temporal causality loop.  <SNIP>
>The event that triggers the loop is simply the act of going
>back in time. <SNIP>
>Many sci-fi authors have grappled with this topic on many levels;
>for an excellent example see the series finale of Star Trek: The 
Next
>Generation (or for a simpler example, see the episode "Cause and 
Effect" - yes,
>I am a geek ;-P).

Me:
Don't worry Sherry, I'm a sci-fi fan (and a geek) myself, especially 
ST: Next Generation and Stargate. The 2 episodes you mention are 
excellent! (And of all Sci-fi series, I believe these too are those 
who handle time loop theories the best). But if I remember correctly 
they try to break the loop, we don't see them getting caught in it 
(causing it) the first time. 

Back to Potterverse you say that the event that triggers the loop is 
the act of going back in time. Yes, but you have to be alive to go 
back in time. Harry is alive because a Patronus drove the Dementors 
away before the kiss. Even if he had received the kiss and goes back 
in time, he would not be able (being soulless) to cast the Patronus, 
so someone else must have done it (the first time), Harry later 
going back in time changed the fact on who cast the Patronus from 
that loop on, but he couldn't have cast it the first time.

The Wolfsbane Potion does not prevent the werewolf to turn into a 
werewolf, it gives him some self control as to not harm other people 
and himself. Maybe Werewolf!James had enough control to cast the 
Patronus the first time (wild guess)


Sherry asked:
>I'm curious to know how old you were when you lived in London?  I'm
>curious because I'm interested in language acquisition and early 
childhood
>development.

I was 5 when I arrived to London, left when I just turned 8. 
Completely forgot my Spanish. My mother says my teachers were amazed 
to find out I was not an English girl, for my accent. Here I had to 
study in a bilingual school to relearn Spanish. Of course it wasn't 
English but American, so I had a hard time making myself understood 
in English at school too. Anyway, I relearned Spanish, acquired a 
strange mix of English and American, which is why I sometimes don't 
know if I am speaking correctly, some things sound weird to me. For 
many years I managed to not forget my English reading books (Nancy 
Drew, Hardy Boys kind of stuff, while still being a kid). I have 
always tried to acquire English (American) editions of the books I 
read and the movies (DVD's ) I buy because translations can be 
awful, especially in technical books. Lately I have CableTV which 
has helped me a lot. The first months with Cable I had a hard time 
understanding American accent and I had to turn on the Close Caption 
to read everything. Now I keep on doing it because I don't 
understand some slang... And yes, reading endless e-mails on a 
subject that one loves does help a lot!!   Anyway, it's a learning 
process, I guess it never ends. :-)


Hey, it just occurred to me that James being in Remus's body is 
another reason to say that it was Lily's death that gave Harry his 
protection. James is never mentioned in this protection (which is 
true if he didn't die). Yes I know, no proof!!


Question: What is a Foe Glass? It is mentioned at the end of GoF, 
while FakeMoody reveals himself to Harry and Harry sees Dumbledore, 
Minerva and Snape through the Foe Glass.

Sherry wrote:
"The one thing that unites all human beings, regardless of age, 
gender, religion, economic status or ethnic background, is that, 
deep down inside, we ALL believe that we are above-average drivers."

Me: Yeah, especially from where I come from  ;-))


Sharana...