Time Travel in PoA (was: Lupin is James - time travel)

[sevenhundredandthirteen <sevenhundredandthirteen@yahoo.com>]

No: HPFGUIDX 48925

Constance Vigilance wrote:

>This is where I have a problem. Hermione WAS seen time traveling. 
>Everybody in all her classes saw her, and commented on it. "How is 
>she doing it? She hasn't missed any (simultaneous) classes?" 
>(Paraphrased) Wasn't this breaking the rules? Or did they mean that 
>no one should see two copies of someone? But then they wouldn't have 
>needed to hide from tipsy Hagrid because he could only see them once.

I went through the Chapter 21; "Hermione's Secret' and I found 
several different reasons why time-turned people must not be seen in 
each individual circumstance.

"You must not be seen."

Dumbledore says: "But remember this, both of you. You must not be 
seen. Miss Granger you know the law - you know what is at stake ... 
You - must - not - be -seen." 

He refers to 'the law.' The only other reference we have to the time-
travelling law is from Hermione. She says: "We're breaking one of the 
most important wizarding laws! Nobody's supposed to change time, 
nobody! You heard Dumbledore, if we're seen - "

The law is pretty much- No-one can change time, regardless of the 
circumstances. Dumbledore mentions the law, and tells them not to be 
seen. So, essentially, Dumbledore expects them to have to change 
time, and is really saying- You're going to have to break the rules 
big time here, just don't get caught doing it!  If anyone sees you 
changing time you're going to be sent of to Azkaban for life (or 
something equally horrendous- this is 'one of the most important 
wizarding laws after all!). Of course, this is where it gets tricky, 
as, after all, Harry and Hermione *didn't* change time. In fact, they 
actually ensured that it happened correctly. Dumbledore knew that 
Beaky had escaped- he was there. So by hinting to H/H that they need 
to save Buckbeak doesn't require any changing of time. Secondly, 
Macnair and the Dementor hadn't met Sirius yet, meaning that H/H 
saving him wasn't changing the past- it was changing the future. 
In this case 'you must not be seen' isn't directly related to simply 
going back in time, it is related more to incidents where you intend 
to *change* time.

But, like I said, H/H *didn't* change time, they let it run smoothly 
to schedule- Buckbeak's disappearance, the Patronus that saved all 
their lives... Perhaps then Dumbledore's warning was to deter H/H 
(specifically Harry) from doing anything that wasn't part of the plan 
(trying to catch Wormtail in Hagrid's hut, trying to catch Wormtail 
when he escaped and is running around the forest, trying to take the 
invisibly cloak so that Snape couldn't use it). Had anything like 
that happened the events of the night would have changed dramatically 
and there's no guarantee that Harry and Hermione would have ever made 
it into the safety of the hospital wing and be able to go back in 
time in the first place (oh, this is doing my head in...). Dumbledore 
also says to Harry the next day: "Hasn't your experience with the 
Time-Turner taught you anything, Harry? The consequences of our 
actions are always so complicated, so diverse, that predicting the 
future is a very difficult business indeed..." Which is saying, even 
the smallest change can make a massive difference in the scheme of 
things. An example of this is seen in the PoA when Harry says he's 
going to grab the cloak- but at that moment an inebriated Hagrid 
appears and Buckbeak strains to get near him. In this instance, if 
Harry had gotten the cloak, Buckbeak would have escaped to Hagrid, 
and if Sirius was caught they'd have no way of saving him. (Of 
course, I'm sure it's debatable that if Harry had taken the cloak 
there would be no need for Beaky as Sirius would've been proved 
innocent! ;D )

When H2/H2 run around trying to get to Buckbeak they hide the whole 
time trying to stay out if sight. Hermione says: "If anyone's looking 
out of a window - " When you think about it, it's no big deal if 
anyone sees Harry and Hermione, as the other Harry and Hermione are 
hidden under the cloak, so there's no "Oh dear- there's two of the 
same people running out there on the lawn." But the reason that they 
were wearing the cloak in the first place because what they were 
doing was against the rules- sneaking around after school hours out 
of bounds and with an alleged murderer on the loose. Had, say, Prof. 
McGonagall been looking out of the window she would have marched down 
and deducted about 50 house points and then sent them back off the 
Gryffindor tower with a detention. This, you could say, would 
slightly inconvenience the plan of saving Sirius *g* So, you could 
say that when Harry and Hermione hide they're actually trying to 
avoid being seen *not* as a precaution against the Time-Turner rules, 
but as a precaution against the Hogwarts disciplinary rules. 
Then there's another 'you must not be seen' instance. This one is to 
avoid a person seeing  themself. Hermione clarifies why this would be 
a disaster: 
'Harry, what do you think you'd do if you saw yourself bursting into 
Hagrid's house?' said Hermione.
'I'd - I'd  think I'd gone mad,' said Harry, 'or I'd think there was 
some dark magic going on-'
'Exactly! You wouldn't understand, you might even attack yourself!"
This would be the same for an incident where a person saw the same 
person twice in the same environment (as Hagrid might if Harry really 
did come bursting into his hut).

Then, there's the type of incident Constance Viligence brought up. 
Two different people seeing Hermione at the same time in different 
places and conferring about it. Ron and Harry *know* that Hermione 
has been to all her classes- she's been seen in all of them by all 
her classmates. And she doesn't try to hide in them. She was seen by 
everyone, but nothing bad happened- because she wasn't trying to 
change time, because the school's disciplinary system (Prof. 
McGonagall at least) *knew* that there would be two of her running 
around (and, presumably, she wasn't doing anything against the rules 
anyway), and if she saw herself she *would* understand- she wouldn't 
try to attack herself or think she'd gone mad, she would understand 
perfectly that she'd gone back in time. So long as Hermione made sure 
she was never seen in the same place twice, none of her classmates 
could *really* be sure that she was actually in every single class 
simultaneously- it was only Ernie MacMillan's word after all. So, the 
way I see it, as long as none of her classmates were in two places at 
once, she could be. The idea being that the less you use the Time-
Turner, and the less turns each time you do use it, the lesser the 
chance people seeing four of your running around the school in all 
different directions. Once anyone found out about it (and if they 
didn't assume Dark Magic and try to hex you) no doubt they'd all be 
wanting a go- look at how grumpy and disappointed Ron is when 
Hermione hands it in. That's why Hermione was lying about having a 
Time-Turner and Prof. McGonagall made her promise not to tell anyone- 
because not everyone else would be extra careful and only use it for 
their studies. Basically, it was in Hermione's best interest not to 
be seen in class, but as that's impossible, it's best to deny that 
there's anything weird or magical going on- just hard work

Which sums up all the ideas I have about the "You must not be seen" 
rule. 

~<(Laurasia)>~