Sirius as Mr Cocky Charisma, Snape as Victim Turned Bully

[Tabouli]

No: HPFGUIDX 34975

Elkins:
> *We* know that there is really nothing in the least bit amusing or good-
> natured about the practical joke, that far to the contrary, it is
> just one of the many means by which the socially popular assert their
> dominance over their less charismatic peers.

I agree wholeheartedly with the overall sentiments of this, but also I think practical jokes aren't always that.  It depends on their content and style of execution.  There is such thing as a non-malicious, non-victimising, genuinely clever practical joke which even the victim finds funny.  Done in light-hearted affection, rather than out of a desire to ridicule.  Of course, a lot of people *think* they've hit on one of these and can't accept that they haven't succeeded (leading to the jinfuriating "Oh come on, it was just a joke, where's your sense of humour?" line).

With regard to victimising people, especially at high school, I find it interesting to look at what happens after people leave school.  I have met quite a few ex-charismatic-victimisers who, like Sirius, are well into adulthood and show no signs whatsoever of remorse.  Indeed, they engage in almost exactly the same behaviour as Sirius - a bit of a smug, callous snicker and a "God, but they were just so revolting and pathetic, they were just asking for it!"  I have tried (in a rather less confrontational way than I would like to be able to) to point out that there are a lot of people whose self-esteem never completely recovers from being persecuted and degraded all through high school, and the ex-charismatic-victimisers shrug indifferently, and sniff along the lines of for god's sake, those losers just need to grow up and get over it.  Apparently if you've always been cocky and popular, the fate of losers is of no consequence.

Delightful.

Needless to say, as someone who *was* victimised (and well before high school - they started when I was 4 and a half) I have very little time for such attitudes (though I'm still too timid to make a real stand).  However, I have also observed another subset of people who impress me almost as little... the victim-turned-bully.  I myself gradually clawed my way out of loserdom into relative social acceptance eventually, and so, eventually, do a lot of "losers" whose main problem is being forced into circles where they're never, ever going to fit or be respected.

I remember one in particular, who was subjected to charming jokes like being locked in a locker and rolled down a hill into a river as a teenager.  Then he grew up, and came top of everything at university and got himself a lot of kudos and respect.  The result?  He immediately jumped onto an academic high horse and started getting his revenge, on the academically unsuccessful, on homosexuals, and on anyone else whom he thought inferior to him (i.e. just about everyone).  As a fellow ex-loser, he didn't intimidate me nearly as much, and I laid into him with a sledgehammer along the "haven't you learnt *anything* from being persecuted and bullied yourself for things you couldn't help??" lines and ceased all contact with him.

In fiction, as in Sirius (My Cocky Charisma) and Snape (Mr Victim turned Bully), I'm quite happy to accept this sort of thing as an interesting portrayal of things I've observed myself in real life.  In reality, however, I brew with disapproval...

Krystyne:
> Hey to anyone reading this. I have a question about this whole Snape 
& Lily romance thing: Is this based on fact?<

Depends on what you mean by fact.  I coined the LOLLIPOPS acronym (though the theory was around well before this), and then conducted Extensive Canonical Research (!) to concoct a plausible backstory which fitted in with everything we currently know about (a) Snape and the Marauders' school days, (b) the events surrounding Snape's defection to and return from Voldemort and (c) Harry's family history.  It's a bit of a matter of adding two and two and getting five, but I think it's five and not ten... it does fit in well with a lot of otherwise inexplicable canon evidence.

Koinonia:
> I don't even mind a story with a tragic romance and I do 
like some smoochy stuff.  What I don't like is this picture of Snape 
being so in love with Lily that he turned into this DE who is now 
just a bitter man.  What a boring story IMHO.

Boring?  Acchhh, I think you're taking too simplistic an approach here.  Perhaps I should boil the whole LOLLIPOPS creed down to this: something horrible and unknown happened to Snape as a child which left him bitter, insecure and resentful, to the extent of learning curses to avenge and protect himself.  Victimised, abused and, inside, deeply lonely, he was very susceptible to falling painfully in love with a girl who seemed strong and smart enough to save him and, for the first time, showed him the kindness he secretly needed. When she chose someone else, he just continued in the direction where he was already heading. Hence tragic childhood as real reason, Lily as catalyst.

Snape reminds me of the "ex-loser" I described above, who is similarly brilliant, bitter, vengeful and long-term grudge-bearing, and did indeed have a rather bleak childhood and got bullied in high school, and who, dare I say it, developed a truly monstrous crush on me because I was kind to him: photos of me all over his wall, expounding his anguish to his bored friends for months (who would periodically contact me and say for God's sake, go out with him and shut him up), lurking for hours to give me lifts home, sitting melodramatically in dark rooms and threatening suicide/boyfriend homicide when I started a relationship with someone else (without it lessening his crush one iota) etc.etc.  Quite alarming.  Not stalking, exactly, but close.  And clung to the crush for absolute years, despite being told repeatedly I wasn't interested.  He only gave up when I finally let him have it in disgust when I saw him go from victimised cringer to cocky bully, racist (he's into the hierarchy of races in intelligence theory) and homophobe.

OK, so Snape wouldn't be as forthcoming about his feelings as that, but otherwise, the symptoms are there...

Tabouli (who realises with some worry that the above implies she is projecting herself into Lily's shoes... eeeg!)


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