Why Suspect Lupin? (WAS: Snape, Lupin's Mistakes Again)

[ssk7882]

No: HPFGUIDX 35325

Cindy wrote:

> Boy. This "Lupin Has Edge" theory presents some problems for me. 
> I'm used to defending Lupin against full frontal assaults. He's a 
> screw-up. He's too perfect. He's boring. He's dishonest. That I 
> can handle.

<crossly>

Well, *I* most certainly can't.  Lupin is not a screw-up, and he 
isn't 'too perfect,' and he is most certainly *not* boring!

Hmmph.  Who says such things?

Dishonest, though...  

<thinks about it for a moment, then shrugs>  

Well, okay.  So maybe he is, a little.  At times.  But no more so 
than many, and far less so than some.


> What we have here is a sneak attack. I can't really deny that Lupin 
> has Edge. 

'Sneak attack?'  But Edge is *good,* Cindy.  Edge is really really 
*good.*  Edge is...

Well, I think that maybe 'Edge' is for me a bit like what 'Tough' is 
for you.  Capiche?

People with Edge are the people I *like.*


> That bit about how his wand use is described as "lazy" is 
> particularly upsetting, because it could very well be a bit of 
> foreshadowing that Lupin won't finish the series in quite the 
> heroic way I imagine. 

Oh.  Ugly thought.  I hadn't meant to imply that at *all.*  And, er...
I certainly hope that the author hadn't either.

Nah, I'm pretty sure Lupin's slated for heroic death.  It will be 
very sad and noble, and we will all cry.


> So what did cause Sirius to suspect Lupin and prefer to switch to 
> Peter? Peter, that's what. 

Oh, sure.  I don't doubt that Peter had a lot to do with it.  I think
that the werewolf thing had a lot to do with it too, for that matter.
But I was just listing things about Lupin's character that might have
contributed...and I think that there are definitely things that would
have.


Eileen wrote:

> "'They call it the Dementor's Kiss,' said Lupin, with a slightly 
> twisted smile."

> And at that moment, I was crying, "Harry! Harry! It's Sirius Black! 
> When will you realize?" "Slightly twisted." That is awful. 

Laura replied:

> Now, I am not going to try to deny for a second that Lupin Has
> Edge. However, I interpreted that line in PoA to mean something 
> entirely different. Perhaps it's because I never thought that Lupin 
> could actually be Black (were we being led to believe this? there 
> was a red-herring? *looks alarmed* I must've missed it. *depressed 
> sigh* I was never any good at fishing)...

LOL!

Oh, lord.  I had poor Lupin chalked down not only as Sirius Black, 
but also as a werewolf (whose wolf form was this big *black* wolf, 
see...) *and* as using Polyjuice Potion (a plot device that was still 
very much on my mind right after CoS, but which I had conveniently 
forgotten all about and thus didn't even think to *consider* when I 
read GoF), *and* as...

Well.  It was a pure and simple mess, was what it was, and no matter 
how I tried, I couldn't seem to make the moon cycles work out right 
to match up with the Grim sightings, or figure out how Dumbledore was 
being fooled, or figure out how no one ever noticed him transforming 
back and forth at the Quiddich match, or figure out how he could be 
both a 'transform-at-will' sort of werewolf *and* a cyclical one, 
or...well, or make any of it make the slightest bit of sense at all, 
actually.

I was always certain that he was a Good Guy, though. 
Because "slightly twisted," while perhaps it is a bit "awful," was 
also just too darned likeable for me not to think that Lupin/Black 
must be a really Good Guy at heart.

I'm prone to slightly twisted smiles myself, you see.


Laura still:

> ...but I always thought that the "slightly twisted smile" in 
> question was not meant to be "twisted" in a psycho-homicidal way, 
> but in a grimacing, half-smile kind of way. . . .Also, when I went 
> back and re-read the books, I figured it also having something to 
> do with his internal struggle over the entire Sirius's fate. .
> . .Lupin seems to me to be the type of person to respond to such an 
> inner conflict with a melancholy, ironic smile. 

Oh no, I didn't read it as psycho-homicidal in the least.  It's not 
at all a *happy* smile, and I agree with you that he's horribly 
conflicted about the idea of Sirius Black getting the Kiss.

But it's not exactly, to my mind, a "melancholy, ironic smile" 
either.  It's both grimmer and...well, and more twisted than that.  
In my reading, anyway.


Back to Eileen:

> To "read" others..... I should probably shut up about Tolkien. But 
> in Tolkien, we see the same trait being used evilly: to manipulate 
> and wound people, by Denethor. 

Now how could I object to your fondness for Tolkien, Eileen, when you 
cheered me so considerably with it earlier?  (Well...okay, so that was
just an action I *ascribed* to you, rather than your own action...but
your Tolkien references always cheer me up, so I thought it was fair.)

Ah, Denethor...  You know, Denethor was my favorite non-SYCOPHANTS-
ish character in all of LotR?  I always really *felt* for Denethor.

Must be that Edge thing again.  I always liked Pippin, too, for that 
matter.  I liked that touch of morbid curiosity to him, that morbid 
fascination: the way that he never seemed to be able to resist doing 
things like throwing rocks down deep pits and awakening ancient Evil, 
or staring into Eastward-turned Palantir, or...  Well, you know.  
Pippin was Denethor Lite, really.  That's why they got on so well.

Edge, yes.  Edge is good.  I like Edge.



Kimberley wrote:

> I tried and I tried to get caught up before commenting on this 
> thread, but I'm all in this dark, sexy place Lupin-wise now, and I 
> just can't wait.

Hi, Kimberley!  I remember that you leapt to my defense 'way back
when I was claiming Lupin's dialogue in Shrieking Shack as mildly
sadistic.  I always meant to continue with that thread, but it sort
of fell by the wayside, so a belated thanks.

I also seem to remember that you were finding yourself a little 
disturbed back then about the Edge-is-sexy thing too, so I thought 
I'd try to reassure you a little bit.  You wrote:

> It's that insight - if he wanted to, he could go straight for the 
> most tender spot and make a grown man cry (hmmm... like Peter?), 
> but (unless terribly provoked... like with Peter) he chooses not 
> to. 

> I was blushing reading Elkins' post and realizing that I'm, well... 
> turned on by his capacity for cruelty. How can this be? . . . .I'm 
> beginning to think I'm a sick and twisted individual.

No, no, no!  Not sick and twisted!  Not at all!

Of course it's sexy.  I mean, if someone has the insight to know how
to really hurt you, then you've gotta figure they've got the insight
to know how to really *please* you as well, right?

And besides, "could really hurt me...but never would."  That's sort 
of the entire underlying dynamic of intimacy right there in a 
nutshell, isn't it?

Relax.  You're normal.  


-- Elkins