Snape & Draco psychology, Mr Norris as Zeus, DEVIL

[Tabouli]

No: HPFGUIDX 35430

More Eloise:
> One of the points of having houses in school is to promote healthy 
competition. I think Snape *is* a competitive person. McGonnagal's 
competitive too, in her own way, though obviously fairer.<

To add to this, I'd say that being competitive and being ambitious are things which tend to go together.  Moreover, as the Dark reputation of Slytherin suggests, a very ambitious person may well be tempted into "dirty" (outside the rules) tactics to achieve his/her aim, such as cheating (Slytherin Quidditch team), subterfuge (Draco's arm), manipulation (Lucius and the governors), undermining and thwarting the opposition (Draco and co in Dementor outfit), etc.etc. and get an unfair advantage.

Hmmm... looking at this list, those Malfoys really do look to be perfect Slytherins, don't they?  McGonagall, on the other hand, seems quite happy to play second fiddle to and look up to Dumbledore... she's the sort of person who wants a just competition, where everyone plays by the rules.

Brings up something I've always mused on... how about our ol' fave Severus?  What's his driving ambition these days?  Does he really want recognition, or it is revenge he really wants?  I'm always a bit sceptical about the notion that Snape's driving ambition is to win an Order of Merlin and the adulation of the people.  If he really wants adulation, why does he go out of his way to make himself disliked?  Clearly he doesn't want liking much, or doesn't know how to get it if he did (sure, he's nice to Draco, but I get the impression that there's a significant element of spiting Harry and deceiving Lucius there).  I think what Snape really wants is revenge-recognition.  He's bitter.  He's angry.  He's had a lifetime of being thwarted and victimised and ill-treated, and he has something to prove.  He wants to force those who wronged him to respect him.  His apparent desire for "adulation" is, IMO, more an "I'll show 'em" kind of spirit than a "I'll be famous and celebrated and loved" kind of spirit.  The latter is Lockhart's game, not Snape.

His apparently divided loyalties are interesting.  He doesn't seem averse to favouring Slytherins in class, or letting Draco get away with arranging top brooms for the team, or malingering, etc.  However, when it comes to the bigger things, like when people are injured in PoA, or when Harry's life is under threat from Quirreldemort in PS/SS, he acts in accordance with his loyalty to Dumbledore rather than his (presumed) Slytherin preference for revenge and spite.

Elkins:
> "why does Snape favor the Slytherins?" -- and 
> really, that's an impossible question to answer.  I think that he 
> does so for multiple reasons, and that the question of which is 
> the "primary" and which the "secondary" motive is probably not only 
> completely context-dependent, but also ultimately unanswerable.<

Hence, I think we *do* have some clues about Snape's motives.  Yes, they're context dependent... in the "small league", his loyalties are to Slytherin.  In the big league (life or death matters), and, note, discreetly, his loyalties are to Dumbledore.  The discretion bit is interesting.  Note that in the Shrieking Shack, while everyone is still conscious, he snarls and threatens and spits.  Even while Fudge and Dumbledore are about, he snarls and spits and bellows.  Yet when there's no-one to witness him, *that's* when he summons the stretchers and puts people on them, like a kind, responsible senior teacher.

Snarling and Slytherin-favouring in public, quietly responsible and loyal to D in private?  Come now, surely this says "image control".  After all, we *know* he was a spy.  I'm happy to buy the "favouring the Slytherins and being horrible as a smokescreen".  It's just convenient for him that those are his superficial natural tendencies anyway.  To spy effectively, he needs to present a consistent front with his pre-spy self, doesn't he?


Debbie on Draco:
> But he's worse than that:  the death wishes for 
Hermione that he expresses periodically, as you point out, go way 
beyond mere adolescent bullying and veer sharply in the direction of 
the sociopathic child who if left unchecked may take Daddy's arsenal 
to school one day for a murder-suicide rampage (though, in another 
glimmer of hope, he never threatens to carry out the threats himself).<

Mmmmmnahhhh.  From all the profiles of people who suddenly go on a sociopathic killing rampage I've ever read and heard about, it almost always seems to be the "quiet" ones, the oppressed ones, the ones who were victimised and degraded by their peers for years, and finally Snape, er, I mean, snap.  Their motivation is to gun down the hand that hit them.

Draco doesn't fit this profile at all.  He's hardly oppressed, for a start (wizard blood counting for less everywhere hardly cuts the mustard), he's the spoilt rich son of someone highly respected in the community, and has two close friends (oafish tho' they be) and, it seems, a girlfriend or at least an admirer.  He's far from a greasy loser who's victimised by his peers... he seems to be almost the Slytherin ringleader!  IMO, his run-ins with the Trio and Twins are the fights of children on the opposite sides of a war (whose parents, moreover, are high-ranking warriors), not signs of sociopathic tendencies.

Gwen:
> He doesn't connect to his son. He threatens him, he bullies him
(verbally, *never* physically, IMO--that's part of Draco's problem),
he rewards him with material goods (inconsistently, btw) and
apparently indulges Narcissa's tendency to spoil him (sweets, choosing
Hogwarts over Durmstrang despite his reservations about Dumbledore).
But...he doesn't show his love in any meaningful way.<

You know, whenever I read people talking about Draco being neglected and abused, I keep getting a whiff of cultural and era differences at work.  The modern ideal of parents who hug their children regularly, tell them they're great all the time, strive to be encouraging and supportive and complimentary about everything they do, democratic, explanatory, negotiation based parenting, etc.etc. is a very recent and, I think, particularly American development.  What gets construed as "abusive" and "authoritarian" these days was downright normal not long ago, and, I suspect, still *is* to some degree among the Britich aristocracy.  These are people who sent their seven year olds to icy boarding schools where they got the cane, ate ghastly food and had cold showers to "toughen them up"! (and, in some circles, still do, I think... any thoughts from British listmembers?).  The idea was to stiffen their upper lip, teach them how to take it/"suck it up" (!) without any betraying hint of weakness or emotion.

By British aristocracy standards, Lucius' parenting would be considered quite acceptable, I'd wager.  Sure, Draco doesn't like his father's criticism (intended to motivate him, I'm sure), but the feeling of class superiority is meant to compensate.  Don't be so common, Draco.

Dicentra:
> It's possible that Dumbledore was not fooled in the least by the
fake MoM message, instead understanding that Quirrell was making his
move. He "leaves" Hogwarts, but he probably doesn't go far. (He tells
Harry that he makes it as far as London, but I wonder...)<

Oh, he well could have... is he a wizard or not?  He could have taken a broomstick, of course, but why would he when he could Floo or leave the grounds and Apparate?

Sarah:
> Just wanted to mention that I recently read that Argus in Greek 
Mythology not only had 100 eyes, but was set to guard Io, after her 
lover Zeus *turned her into a cow (!)* to save her from Hera's wrath. <

See?  See?  Canono-mythological support for FLIRTIAC!!  (well, we know JKR is borrowing themes from mythology, and that Argus is once such borrowing, so I'd call that support-ish).  Mr Norris as Zeus... I like it.

Cindy:
> Let's say Filch is a squib and Mrs. Norris has been hexed.  Filch works for one of the 
most powerful wizards ever - Albus Dumbledore.  So why doesn't he 
just ask Dumbledore to put it right?

Because Dumbledore, like Wormtail, realised that the safest way to conceal Mrs Norris from the wrath of her dastardly Death-Eater husband was to leave her in animal form.  Filch wept, he pleaded, he implored, but Dumbledore was having none of it.  Better a life as a cat concealed in Hogwarts than a death at the hands of V's followers.  Take good care of her, Argus.  Note that Dumbledore treats Filch's anguish when he things Mrs Norris is dead with gentleness and respect, far more so than he accords poor Snape in *his* hour of torment in PoA...

Watching Mrs Norris' behaviour, a secondary theory that occurs to me is that she was another of Dumbledore's spies or even Aurors.  She certainly spies for Filch.  Maybe she infiltrated the Death Eaters and succeeded in AKing Wilkes seconds before he Apparated to the Potters' to kill Harry, only to be hit by a cat-curse by Rosier just before Moody arrived to AK him.  Moody tried to reverse the curse, of course, but it proved beyond his expertise, so he took her to Dumbledore.  Dumbledore could have fixed her, of course, but decided that V's price on her head was too high to risk it, and instead gave her sanctuary in Hogwarts as a cat, to work in tandem with her Squib lover, Argus Filch...

Eloise (to Cindy):
>Well, there are at least two of us huddling together for warmth in the Bagman 
is a DE camp<

(Tabouli, still in her swirling black robes, sneaks back on board LOLLIPOPS and goes straight to her cabin, where she extracts a tent, some hiking boots and a fuzzy flannel shirt, on which she pins a badge that says:
"L.A.S.S.I.T.U.D.E." (Ludo, Amiably Stupid Sportsman, Is The Undercover Death Eater!), and flashes D.E.V.I.L.!  (Death Eater, Verily, Is Ludo) in fiery red letters if you press it)

Actually, I've had a plot reserved on the DEVIL campsite since I read GoF, I just don't get to visit it much, what with my LOLLIPOPS captaining duties, maintaining the FLIRTIAC dinghy, and my casual job as Evil Overlady.  Here, have some badges to keep you warm...

Tabouli (lighting the campfire and breaking out the marshmallows)


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