Harry v. Malfoy/James v.Snape

[charisjulia]

No: HPFGUIDX 35709

Eloise wrote:
(quoting)
>> Now personally, I don't think that any additional motivation for 
>> hatred between these two men other than what has already been 
>> provided by canon is in the least bit necessary. 

>At the risk of being heretical......
>The same argument can be made regarding Snape and James - and hence 
by 
>extension, Harry. . .
>Moreover Dumbledore likens the Snape/ James antipathy to that 
between Draco 
>and Harry: in other words, it was *always* there, not something that 
arose 
>later
<snip>
>What I'd like to know is the basis of James' and Snape's animosity 
*at the 
>beginning*. There could be another back story ( and I'll let you 
graft 
>Lollipops on, if you like, but not as a prime motive)
>I've wondered about various things. What if there was a long 
standing 
>animosity between the Snapes and the Potters? Similar to that 
between the 
>Weasleys and the Malfoys. 


Now if I'm reading you right one thing you're heading in the general 
direction of here is that there could be a certain amount of 
similarity between the Harry –Ron—Draco circle of hate and that of 
James, Sirius and Severus, right? If it's not then my apologies, I 
misinterpreted you. At any rate though it's what I'm getting at so 
bear with me a while.


I do see definite parallels between the two relationships. After all 
as you point out Dumbledore himself, who ought to know both groups 
pretty well, mentions the likeness between the Harry –Draco and James-
-Severus antipathy as early on as the first book. Couldn't we then, 
after being further informed of the other people involved in the next 
books, stretch this resemblance a little bit further? Consider the 
following corresponding pairs: Harry is James, Ron is Sirius, 
Hermione is Remus and Draco of course is Snape. If we accept this 
view of things it simplifies understanding the Marauder's 
relationship with Snape a great deal. We simply have to follow the 
pattern set out by the rivalry of the present—day generation, of 
which we've had a blow—by—blow account. And this in fact, works out 
pretty well. Allow me to demonstrate:


As you say the hatred between Harry and Malfoy has * always* been 
there. When Harry first meets Draco at Madame Malkins his dislike of 
him is almost instant and mounting every second. Harry starts by 
likening him to Dudley and finishes by hurrying off in relief to be 
rid of his company. What we've got here is a head—on clash of 
character, but nothing truly personal. Harry just doesn't like Malfoy 
and Malfoy, though initially actually rather keen to make friends 
with Harry (I can help you get in with the right sort, blah, blah, 
blah. . .), quickly discovers he doesn't like Harry either. And 
that's all there is to it really. They're just not each other's * 
type*, pure and simple. It's not personal. There's no harrowing 
vendetta behind it. They hate what the other stands for, more than 
the other as an individual. The sniping comments and dueling 
challenges and train romping all come after that. They're the natural 
follow—ups, the results of an instinctive aversion. And so it is with 
James and Snape as well. Snape hated James because James was the 
strutting Quidditch Cup Winner, not because of anything specific that 
James did to him. 


So up till this point I'm nodding along merrily with you. But then 
you go and confuse me. You say you'd like to know what there was at 
the beginning of their animosity. Err, but haven't you just stated 
that there was * nothing*? You liken the supposed Potter/Snape family 
hatred to the Weasley/ Malfoy one. Ahh, you see this is where we 
disagree. Because the way I see it indeed there need not be anything 
behind James v. Severus. But Sirius v. Severus? That's a whole 
different kettle of fish. (One by the way cheerfully bubbling away 
over the stove in the C.U.P.I.D.'S.B.L.U.D.G.E.R. kitchens, after 
being hauled in by a seriously overexcited Captain Charis Julia, 
who's apparently mistaken playing pirates for playing cowboys and is 
romping around on deck brandishing her fishing rod as a lasso in most 
alarming fashion and slapping the sides of the ship yelling "Giddy up 
me lass!" at the top of her voice. But that's neither here nor there; 
This is not a shipping post.)


I think Sirius and Snape hate each other much in the same manner Ron 
hates Draco. In this case the Harry/James v. Malfoy/Snape criteria is 
turned on it's head. Instead of the dislike being the reason for the 
sneers and fights, the sneers and fights are the reason behind the 
dislike. Ron and Draco start they're acquaintance with an exchange of 
insults that would have evolved into fisticuffs too, if Scabbers 
hadn't intervened. In actual fact they are already poised for combat 
long before they even meet by their family's ongoing conflict. In 
other words, their dislike is deeply personal right from the start. 
What's more personal than family or more aggravating than gibes at 
their expense?


Of course Ron hates the principles Draco personifies just as much as 
Harry does. And Harry's dislike of Draco is quickly fortified by 
personal grudges. But for Ron the rivalry –always IMO—touches a raw 
nerve that Harry doesn't feel. Hence it is always Ron who lashes out 
first at Malfoy, Ron who's quick at drawing his wand when Malfoy 
appears, Ron who smoulders resentfully afterwards. Harry's forever 
the one holding him back. In fact it would be fair to assume that, 
had Harry and Ron got a werewolf friend, Ron would be the one to set 
Malfoy up for an interview with him and Harry the one rushing to 
rectify the situation.


This is actually one of the reasons I'm so keen to give Sirius a 
particular grievance against Snape. It seems to me there must be 
something behind his open (pre—PoA always) hostility for him. And I 
suppose a family feud could work there, except that it's already been 
used and enough similarities are enough. So personally I prefer the 
cherchez la femme option. But, each to his own.


And last we've got Hermione and Lupin. Don't their attitudes towards 
their enemies bear a resemblance? They share the mantra of "Ignore, 
ignore". Be polite, calm, dignified. And at the same time I'm sure 
that even even Remus lost his temper once in a while and gave Snape a 
good punch in the face when his "We've got meat for lunch today Lupin—
too bad it's cooked, huh?" taunts got too much.


Having said all this however I do hope that Neville won't turn out to 
be a second Peter. That really would be taking it too far. And 
besides, it would completely mess up the Toadkeeper theory, which I 
am rather partial to! (Charis salutes Captain Cindy respectfully and 
asks if she can reserve a seat in the lounge –that's all I'm good for 
as far as this rowboat is concerned: lounging around; unfortunately 
nothing new to add for support— but has to check out what Big Bang is 
first before she boards because she missed that)


Charis Julia.