Time scales at the end of PoA (LONG)

[Hollydaze]

No: HPFGUIDX 32829

There are two sections to this email, on is in regard of how long it takes to get to the Whomping Willow and the other as to how I see the time line of all the events that took place.

I have just spent 2 1/2 hours working this out so please be gentle when you point out all the holes that are in it!

Cindy Wrote:
> If we round it off, Hermione, Harry and Ron leave the castle at 
> 9:00.  They have a visit with Hagrid, and then a one-hour trip to 
> Hogsmeade in the tunnel.  According to canon, the tunnel trip Harry > takes to Honeydukes takes "ages" and Harry doesn't arrive until 
> "what felt like an hour."  The Whomping Willow tunnel felt "as 
> least as long as the one to Honeydukes."

I can see what your getting at, but the downfall of that is that it says it "felt" like an hour, not that it *was* an hour. There are many times that something can feel like an hour and yet only be say 15 minutes, or half an hour. If your waiting for a friend to come round, the day before your birthday when your younger can feel a lot longer than it really is, if your on a journey that you haven't done before.

In regards this last one (which is the one that applies to Harry and his trip to Hogsmeade/the SS) I always find that if I am going somewhere (either walking or in the car or whatever) and I have never been there before or I am using a new route, the journey always seems to take longer than it really does, plus the trip back always seems shorter. This way I can feel like I have been in the car (or walking) for maybe an hour, when in fact it has only been 30 minutes. I don't think we can really take this "felt like an hour" thing as a fact that that is how long it actually does take, especially as Harry is quite likely to loose track of time when he is in a long dark passage with nothing to give him an clue as to what the time might be. I can't see it taking an hour for the pupils at the school to get from the school to Hogsmeade by the normal route, and it would only take Harry a little bit longer (it must be less than 10 minutes) to get there below ground (because he is actually travelling to a shop plus he has to go down as well as along) 
The reason I think that Harry's route does take longer but not that much longer is because when Malfoy runs off Harry does say (or think) that he can't beat Malfoy back to the school even if he runs, (this implies that his route does take a bit longer) however if it was too much longer then Malfoy would have time to get back to the school, warn Snape and then Snape would not just have caught Harry in the corridor but he would have caught him coming out of the witch.

I basically think that comment about it "(feeling) like an hour" is just to emphasis that it is a long passage and so it does take some time to travel down it, but I don't think you are meant to take it literally as otherwise none of the events in the SS really fit in a time scale and I would think that that is one of the things that JK would have worked out because otherwise that would be something really obviously wrong.

**************************************************************************************************************

TIME LINE OF EVENTS? Here is a time line of when things could have happened, underneath is an explanation of why I think things happened in this order:
/ = between (depending on the time before hand was generally: all the first times go together and all the second times go together)
I know people will argue with this but I have used the book the whole way, as well as comparing the events as they take place (twice) form each chapter. Just to make sure everything is as it should be.

8:55 HRH go to Hagrid's, HH2 waiting in Cupboard. (From the book)
9:05 HRH arrive at Hagrid's, HH2 just behind them.
9:15/9:20 Hagrid sees the committee leaving the school.
9:20/9:25 HRH leave Hagrid, The committee arrive, HH2 hiding behind a tree.
9:23/9:28 HH2 rescue Beaky and are behind the tree again.
9:25/9:30 Scabbers has escaped, Committee in Hagrid's hut, HH2 + B hidden behind tree.
9:26/9:31 Ron catches Scabbers, Sirius turns up as a Dog.
9:29/9:34 Sirius drags Ron into the WW and HH1 have followed.
9:29/9:34 Committee go back up to school.
9:34/9:39 Committee back inside the school.
9:36/9:41 Lupin "sprints" out of the front doors.
9:39/9:44 Lupin is inside the WW.
9:39/9:44 Hagrid leaves his hut.
9:42/9:48 Hagrid arrives at the school front doors.
9:44/9:50 Snape leaves the school.

So by around 9:50 everyone who should be in the Willow is inside (Sn, Si, L, P/Sc, H, H, R and C).

10:55 Everyone leaves the WW. (They have been in the willow for about 60 - 65 minutes - there is no way AT ALL that it can logically take 1 hour to get along the track)
10:00 Lupin transforms and Sirius chases him into the FF, HH2 move to Hagrid's hut.
10:05 Sirius has chased Peter and HH1 go to find Sirius, Dementors turn up.
10:05 H2 is on the opposite bank.
10:06 HH1 try to cast patronus.
10:07 H2 casts patronus.
10:08 HH2 see Snape putting people on stretchers.
10:10 Snape sets of for the school with his four stretchers following. (From the book)
10:13 Snape arrives at the school.
11:15 Dumbledore, Snape, and Sirius are in Flitwicks office.
11:20 Dumbledore talks to Sirius, Snape and Fudge leave to go to Hospital wing (presumed).
11:30 HH1 wake up.
11:35 Dumbledore leaves Sirius.
11:40 Dumbledore turns up at the Hospital wing, Fudge, Snape and Madam Pomfrey leave.
11:41 Snape and Fudge send McNair to get the Dementors.
11:42 HH2 see McNair at the front of the school
11:43 HH2 rescue Sirius.
11:45 HH2 start down the West tower. (From the book)
11:50 Snape and Fudge walk past HH2 and the west tower, on their way to Flitwick's office.
11:54 Peeves leaves and HH2 carry on to Hospital wing
11:55 HH1 leave the Hospital wing, HH2 arrive back at the Hospital wing. (From the book)

Here is the Explanation of why things seem to have happened this way. I have used the books to find all the events that took place and any mentions of the time (including the four that have been pointed out above.)

Everything starts at 8:55 (3 hours before the time turner), HHR go down to Hagrid's and HH2 follow them, it probably takes them 10 minutes (they have to walk slowly) to get there under the cloak and they stay for between 10 and 15 minutes (in that time they talk and find Scabbers) then Hagrid stands up and sees the committee with Dumbledore coming down the steps, it probably only takes the committee about 5 minutes to walk to Hagrid's hut as they don't have to walk slowly and they are older (have longer legs) so walk quicker. 

That takes us to between 9:20 and 9:25, we have about 1 1/2 hours left.

HH2 see HHR leave, then McNair looks out of the window and leaves to look at the form, they probably then have about 2 or 3  minutes to get Beaky away. The committee come out and we have the thud of the axe and Hagrid's wails, these are heard by HHR. When HHR set of back to the school they try to speed up but are slowed down by Ron trying to control Scabbers. They are probably half way back up to the school when Scabbers escapes. Now we know that HH2 have already rescued Becky when they see Ron dark after Scabbers, we also know that there has been some discussion between the committee about what happened to Beaky and then they went back into Hagrid's hut. This probably takes about  2-3 minutes, so Scabbers probably ran for it about this time.

This brings us to about 9:25 - 9:30.

So then within the next minute, H and H run after R -who has finally caught Scabbers- (with HH2 still watching) and Sirius turns up. it takes about 3 minutes for Sirius to drag Ron (and Scabbers) under the tree and for HH1 to follow.
So by 9:29 - 9:34 SSHHR are in the Tunnel, 
    Only a matter of seconds later Dumbledore and the committee members come out of Hagrid's hut and go back up to the castle, this takes about the same amount of time as before, 5 minutes and a "few minutes later" Lupin appears. Lets say 2 minutes after the committee disappeared through the doors. This brings us to 9:36 - 9:41.
    Lupin is "sprinting" down the steps, so we can presume it takes him less than 5 minutes to reach the Whomping willow, lets say 3. A couple of seconds after that Hagrid appears from his hut and goes up to the castle. Being the size he is we can presume it take him maybe 3-4 minutes to get there.Then "barely two minutes later" Snape appears.

This brings us to 9:44 - 9:50.

So now everyone is in place, Sn Si P L H H R and C are in the Shrieking Shack, HH2 are waiting with B by Hagrid's hut and everyone else is up in the school, all by about 9:45.
    Now, we know that it is 11:10 when Snape comes too and takes everyone on stretchers to the school from this quote and the fact that Dumbledore locked the door at 11:55 "Together (Harry and Hermione) peered around the bush at the other bank. Snape had regained consciousness. He was conjuring stretchers and lifting the limp forms of Harry, Hermione and Black onto them. A fourth stretcher no, doubt bearing Ron, was already floating at his side. Then, wand held out in front of him, he moved them away towards the castle.
'Right, it's nearly time,' said Hermione tensely,looking at her watch. 'We've got about forty-five minutes until Dumbledore locks the door to the hospital wing' ".
    Then we say it takes 5 minutes for L to transform and Si to send him into the forest (at this point HH2 and B run for Hagrid's hut) , another 5 minutes for Sirius to go after Peter and then for HH1 to find him and the Dementors. By this time Ha2 is on the other side of the lake. Then say maybe 2 minutes before Ha2 casts his patronus to save HH1 and Si on the other bank. He2 dashes up to him and then they watch as about 1 min later Snape turns up, this gives a Time-span of about 15 minutes for all of the stuff with the Dementors to happen. This means it was about 10:55 when they all came out of the WW (11:10 - 15 minutes).

This means that they were in the shack for between 1 hour and 10 minutes or 1 hour and 5 minutes (that is plenty of time for everything that is supposed to happen especially as they would have been running along the track the first time) and we now have 45 minutes for everything else to happen. 
    So Snape takes them all back up to the school, that takes about 3 minutes (they are already half way there and Snape is dragging them by magic). Then HH and R are taken to the hospital wing and Sirius is taken to Flitwick's office.

This is where it gets difficult to work things out:
Again we will have to work backwards. HH2 turn up at the hospital wing door just as D is about to lock it, so they must turn up at 11:55. They get from the west tower (where they said bye to Sirius) to the hospital wing in 10 minutes (Hermione says they have 10 minutes to get there and they make it). At the bottom of the West tower they meet Snape and  Fudge. They run down some more stairs and then meet Peeves and by the time Peeves has gone they have one minute left.
    This means that they were at the top of the west tower at 11:45. and must have rescued Sirius about 2 minutes before that, meaning they rescued Sirius at around 11:43.
They headed up to Flitwicks window as soon as they had seen McNair rush off to get the Dementors, so this must have been about 1 minute before they were at Sirius's Window, so that would make it 11: 42.

This means that Dumbledore was probably talking to Sirius from about 11:15/11:20 (allow 2 minutes to get to Flitwicks office) until about 11: 35 (give or take a min), that gives just under half an hour which is probably enough time for Dumbledore to get all the info that he needs to know. Fudge and Snape were probably with him but left at some point although I don' t think they would have got McNair to go and get the Dementors yet (the times scale doesn't work if they did). And they were talking outside the hospital wing by 11:30. HH 1 wake up and argue with them about Sirius being innocent and they say they are confunded or ill. By 11:40 Dumbledore turns up (having talked to S and taken about 5 minutes to get the Hospital wing) Snape and Fudge leave, and send McNair to get the Dementors, he takes a few minutes to get to the castle entrance and then HH2 wait the a few minutes before going up to rescue Sirius. On their way down, HH2 bump into Snape and Fudge on their way to Flitwicks office, having sent McNair off they are now going to wait for the Dementor to turn up).

There is one problem with this time line and that is that while it take Dumbledore five minutes to get from Flitwicks office to the hospital wing it takes Fudge and Snape 10 minutes to return there. However this may be explained by the fact that they had to go and find McNair fist and may also have been walking slower because they were talking. Dumbledore may also have been walking faster because he knew how quickly he would have to work if Sirius was to escape.
The other thing I find a bit far fetched is that Fudge would have waited to send for the Dementors rather than sending for them immediately, but he must have done or else Dumbledore would never have had time to talk to Sirius, or else (as was stated above) HH2 would have turned up when Dumbledore was still in the room!

HOLLYDAZE!!!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]