Hermione and Femininity (now with SHIPping!)

[virtualworldofhp]

No: HPFGUIDX 32885

--- In HPforGrownups at y..., "selah_1977" <ebonyink at h...> wrote:
> Discussion of my favorite character never fails to bring me out of 
> lurkdom...
> 
Ebony:
> She's proven that she can keep her 
> mouth shut when it counts, which makes her like gold in her 
> friendship with the boys as many aspects of Harry's quest/the main 
> plot hinge upon this.  (One wonders if Ginny has this same quality... 
> I am curious.)

Well, Ginny does keep quiet about Hermione's date to the Yule
Ball--and this is definitely one of those tasty morsels that is very,
very difficult to keep secret.  If she really does fancy Harry
strongly still in GoF, and she's not quite so inclined to keep
Hermione's secret, she might have told Ron & Harry who Hermione was
going with to gain favor with Harry (even though it was Ron who was
asking).  If that makes sense.

> Our opinions differ when it comes to Hermione's femininity.  When I 
> first entered the fandom a year and a half ago, I incited a flame 
> skirmish on another grown-up Harry Potter list for stating that 
> Hermione was "all girl".  I don't care if some think that's an anti-
> feminist statement, she is just as feminine in her own way as 
> Lavender and Parvati are, and as Ginny (in the very limited glimpses 
> we get of her) is.  That's not a feminine vs. non-feminine thing; 
> it's a personality thing.  She is not portrayed as a tomboy or as an 
> asexual nerd.  She's just a smart girl.  That's all.

I think I came out sounding a little harsh against Hermione.  In
restropect, most of the insight we've gained as readers about Hermione
is through Harry's lens.  This, of course, would tend to make her
less-feminine as Harry himself does not (yet, or at least at first)
view Hermione as a "girl" (vs. viewing her as a friend).  This could
go towards my perception of Hermione has not shown much inclination
towards feminimity.  But then again, she's only beginning--while age
brings maturity for girls, maturity doesn't always bring that
a-typical picqued interest in the opposite sex at the same time. 
After all, she's still 15 & with a more "boarding school" type of
repression, I could see this occuring a little bit later than some
"pre-mature tweens" you see in America.

> I can't see Hermione going to Ginny for advice.  I see any Hermione-
> Ginny friendship being the other way around, with Hermione as an 
> older sister and advisor figure to Ginny, who not only is a bit 
> younger, but with the exception of the Riddle's diary incident has 
> not had the depth and diversity of experiences that Hermione's had.  
> Unless JKR shows us something differently in the future, of course.

I can't really see Hermione seeking advice from Ginny, but rather use
her more of a "bouncing-off" person.  Just someone to talk to without
really expecting helpful feedback.
 
> > Hermione essentially makes a huge character jump (in this 
> > department) during two chapters in GoF during the Yule Ball.  She
 > > has 
> > essentially shown no signs of real mature feelings for a guy thus 
> > far.
>  
> Two things here.  First, I would ask which character in their year 
> *has* shown any "mature" feelings in a romantic sense.  Even Ron's 
> feelings for her are embryonic, obvious though they may be.  Harry's 
> feelings towards Cho aren't matured... it's a lot of stomach twisting 
> and reddening, but as far as we can tell he hasn't gotten beyond or 
> even to the kissing/cuddling phase of his imagination.  And for all 
> their giggling, Lav and Parvati don't seem all that worldly-wise in 
> that department.  They're all just kids, and for all her book smarts, 
> so is Hermione.

Oh, no, I wasn't saying anyone else had either. :-D  I think I was
jsut trying to point out that Hermione goes from apparently (Harry's
perspective, remember) zero interest in guys her age, to basically
entering "Prom Court" at the Yule Ball.  It's very easy that
Hermione's shown interest all along in other guys (subtle, mind you)
but we don't "see" it through Harry's filter.
 
> I hope that Hermione and Ginny's friendship develops for its own 
> sake, not because of crushes or boys.  And I think it will.

It would be great to see a bit more "female perspective" in HP and the
WW.  Imagine poor Harry's dismay, <g>.  (or rather, Ron's!)

> Harry takes her for granted, because she's been pretty much the same 
> constant variable in his life from mid-PS/SS until the end of GoF.  
> But anything could change that.  Ron dating her would change that.  
> Hermione avoiding him for whatever reason would change that.  Her 
> death, kidnapping, or otherwise becoming a casualty could change 
> that.  We've had Hermione-Ron conflict, we've had Harry-Ron conflict, 
> but aside from the Firebolt incident in PoA we've had absolutely no 
> Harry-Hermione conflict, and even in that case Ron was mad at her too.

After all, conflict is what fuels great stories.

> I do know what you're saying, Megan.  And I totally understand and 
> agree.  I know you don't like the idea of H/H, but I am one of those 
> very annoying people who believes that Hermione just may have a 
> tamped-down crush on Harry which either 1) she'll get over soon or 2) 
> someone will figure out.

I guess I've never wanted to have Hermione to have a "crush" because
it just sounds so shallow and petty for so great a character.  But, as
teenagers, that's just something that almost everyone that age goes
through--like a coming of age test of sorts.  I do see it as entirely
possible, but I'll never be in favor of it--for reasons I can't even
really explain.  (Maybe this is the heart of R/H's thinking?  Or just
me, <g>.)

-Megan