Hagrid's Competence

[moongirlk]

No: HPFGUIDX 33924

I'm sorry, I know I'm the bleeding heart always jumping to the 
defense of pretty much everyone, but I love Hagrid, I can't help it.

Jenny:
<<I don't like that Hagrid continues to use his wand disguised 
as an umbrella after he was explicity told not to. I don't like that 
he drinks, especially when he is with Harry. He runs to the bar after 
he takes Harry to Gringotts, and is found drunk by the Trio after his 
woes with Buckbeak overtake him. As a groundskeeper, I am assuming he 
is on duty all the time; getting drunk on the campus of a school is 
inexcusable. I also do not like that he uses his class as an 
experiment to see just what these Blast-Ended Skrewts are; he has no 
idea himself. Last, I didn't like that he leaned on the Trio for help 
with Norbert, something he wasn't supposed to have to begin with.>>

The umbrella/wand – he was explicitly given permission by Dumbledore 
to use magic in PS/SS – one of the reasons he was excited to be the 
one to go get Harry.  He is shown to ask permission to use magic 
another time, as well, so he's not just sneaking around breaking the 
rules all the time, and even if he were, I'd say he's more than 
justified, considering the wand and the educational opportunities 
that went with it were taken from him *unjustly* in the first place.

I agree with you that the drinking is a clear and dangerous flaw, but 
not one more inexcusable than the flaws of Snape, who you cite as 
better, who is verbally abusive, threatens students with mind-
altering and privacy-infringing drugs (veritaserum), goes off into 
unreasoning violent rages (end of PoA) and deliberately blocks 
students from access to higher authority (keeping them from getting 
to Dumbledore).  In Hagrid's first class, the students are in no more 
danger than they were in Sprout's classes with the mandrakes – handle 
them with proper respect for their power and magical qualities, and 
there is no danger.  Yes, he did go with the flobberworms after the 
fact, and maybe that was a copout, but it makes sense – twice now 
Hagrid has been punished for a crime he didn't commit, so it's 
perfectly understandable in my mind that after the Buckbeak incident, 
he would be afraid of being unjustly treated, and retreat to the 
safety of flobberworms (more on that below).

As for Norbert – initially he tried to keep him hidden from them, but 
they brought themselves into the loop.  Then he considered it a treat 
for them to see him born, and they volunteered to help with him.  
After that, he allowed them to take control to get rid of Norbert, 
but they weren't pushed into doing any of that.  Granted, it was 
dangerous to expose them to him, but he didn't make them do it.  
The skrewts may have turned out to be horrible, and it may have been 
illegal to breed them, but in the real world, that would be 
considered valuable research and he'd have gotten a grant to study 
them and ambitious graduate students would have been queuing up to 
get into the class.  

Jenny again:
<<Perhaps a teaching 
assistant (Charlie Weasley?) is what he needs, but his classes for 
the 
most part are too much based on what Hagrid likes, not what is best 
for the students, and what Hagrid likes are creatures that even he 
has 
trouble controlling and understanding. I'd rather be in Snape's class 
any day.>>

And Snape doesn't subject his students to things that are dangerous 
or difficult to understand?  Hagrid never would have threatened to 
sic one of his creatures on a childs pet, but Snape doesn't hesitate 
to threaten to kill Trevor.  I'd prefer a teacher who might be a 
little reckless, but had the faith in me to believe I could handle it 
to one who resorted to belittling and bullying, and assumed from the 
very first day that I'd be a "dunderhead", but that's just me.

And Cindy's additions:
<<Hagrid leaked information to the trio about the Sorcerer's Stone.

Hagrid blabbed the secret about how to subdue Fluffy.>>

I agree, these are problems, but they come from being overly 
trusting, and from drinking too much, both of which I think can be 
explained as stemming from Hagrid's not-too-happy life (also expanded 
upon below).

<<Hagrid gave Dudley (an innocent child) a pig's tail because he was 
angry at Vernon.>>

Somebody already responded to this, but I have to reiterate – in what 
world is Dudley an *innocent* child?  I wouldn't buy that one even if 
the Brooklyn Bridge was thrown in.

<<Hagrid used magic to retrieve Harry when he was not permitted to do 
so and asked Harry to keep it a secret.>>

Hagrid had direct permission from Dumbledore to use magic in 
retrieving Harry, although possibly Dumbledore didn't have official 
authority to give that permission.

<<Hagrid endangered the trio and Malfoy by having them look for a 
unicorn murderer in the forbidden forest.>>

That was not Hagrid's decision – they got detention, and their 
punishment was to accompany him.  He did not determine their 
detention, just did what he needed to do on the night in question.  
He would have gone alone were it not for the fact that someone else 
gave the kids the punishment to go with him.  He had to go in search 
of the unicorn, which may have still been alive and in need of his 
help.

<<Hagrid endangered Ron and Harry by encouraging them to enter the 
forest in CoS, which almost got them eaten by large spiders.>>

Ok, this one seems like a stretch to me.  He was being dragged off to 
Azkaban for a crime he didn't commit, he knew something that he 
thought could help stop attacks on students (attacks that he knew for 
a fact could escalate into killings) and had mere seconds to decide 
what to do – he tossed out some information that he thought could 
help save lives.  


I agree that Hagrid has faults – clearly he drinks too much, he has 
confidence problems, and he is way too trusting.  I just think that 
1. any good character is going to have faults, and 2. there are 
reasons for Hagrid's faults.

There's been a lot of debate about Sirius and the nature of his 
personality and whether or not he suffers from PTSD, which would 
explain a lot of the things that we see as failings in Sirius's 
character, such as the angry slashing of paintings and bed-curtains 
and the breaking of a student's leg and the grabbing-by-the-neck 
thing.  I don't know enough about mental illnesses to be certain of 
this diagnosis, but I think it would be equally useful to look at 
depression as an explanation of some of Hagrid's behaviors.  

Hagrid's had one heck of a sad life.  Think of the problems that 
others have – he's got many of them all put together.  Like Harry, he 
lost parents.  His mother simply abandoned him, and his dad died 
while he was still in his formative years.  Like Lupin, he suffers 
from discrimination, in this case for being a half-giant.  Like 
Sirius, he was accused of and punished for a crime he did not commit 
(granted the Aragog thing was wrong, but was not expel-the-kid wrong, 
and he never got anyone petrified or killed.  He was basically 
labeled from that moment as either being dumb or evil – people seem 
to have gone with the dumb explanation - but all the incident really 
proves is that he has an affinity for dangerous creatures.  Sadly, he 
was denied the right to continue his studies so he could get a job 
like Charlie's, which he would presumably love and be extra-good at 
if his size would help him control the dragons.  Which leads me to 
the fact that like Neville, he lacks confidence, in his case probably 
traceable in part to the abandonment of his mother, but even more so 
to the fact that he was denied the education that all other wizards 
get, and thus a part of him was sort of `suspended' at the age at 
which he was expelled from school.  This is reinforced by the fact 
that he never actually left the school, and as kind as Dumbledore is 
to him, staying eternally at Hogwarts might not really be the best 
thing for him (one of the reasons I'm excited about the mission he 
has been sent on at the end of GoF).  It is pretty reasonable to 
conclude from the scenes with Mme Maxime that he's never known any 
sort of romantic love relationship, or even anyone "of his own kind" 
before.  He's lonely.  The other adults at the school, other than 
Dumbledore, do not respect him, and have little faith in his 
abilities, thus reinforcing his self-doubts.  McGonagall is kind 
enough to him, but doesn't have any faith in him, as is evidenced by 
her reaction to Dumbledore's entrusting Hagrid with Harry as a baby.  
He has few human friends, the beasts he cares for are the only ones 
who accept him without question, except maybe the trio, but even they 
believe briefly, because of Riddle, that Hagrid is capable of murder.

All in all, I'd say it would be more than reasonable to consider that 
Hagrid may suffer from depression.  In his loneliness and desire for 
acceptance, he may sometimes drink too much and trust the wrong 
people, and he may doubt his own skills, but so far little other than 
Dumbledore's trust has ever afforded him the opportunity to prove 
himself, even to himself.  Of course he's going to falter a bit.

The Buckbeak incident in PoA nearly broke my heart.  His very first 
class ever, he's finally been entrusted with something important, but 
he knows he's not `properly' qualified.  He wants to start off with a 
bang and do something interesting, so he introduces them to Buckbeak 
and his pals.  He did everything right in that class, it's only 
Malfoy's complete disregard for him that causes a problem.  The kid's 
injury is minimal and he knows it, but he also knows from experience 
that in regards to Hagrid, the world is not a fair place, and 
Malfoy's father is a powerful man.  He assumes, rightly, that his 
resignation will be called for.  He does not count on Dumbledore 
standing up for him and refusing to let him resign.  He thinks of 
Dumbledore as a "great man", but knows that he's the only thing 
standing between Hagrid and dismissal and maybe even legal action.  
Plus they're going after his "friend" Buckbeak, with the intent to 
kill.  He turns to safe flobberworms because that way no student can 
get hurt (even if they may later claim to Rita Skeeter that they 
were), and flobberworms don't seem to have much in the way of 
feelings or anything, so no noble creature like Buckbeak will be hurt 
in the future either.  As his confidence comes back, he does move on, 
even to useful and interesting creatures by the end of GoF.

I totally see Hagrid's flaws as understandable and normal, and no 
more debilitating to him as a teacher than Snape's flaws.  Both of 
them, I'd wager, are less effective than Sprout or Flitwick who seem 
to be getting pretty good results with their students even while 
being reasonable and kind, but given the choice between Hagrid and 
Snape, I wouldn't have to think long to decide who's class I'd want 
to take as a student, regardless of my growing empathy for Snape.  
I'll learn my potions out of a library book the way the trio do for 
Polyjuice – much less emotionally battering, even if I do 
inadvertently pick up the screaming book.

kimberly