SHIP: Possibility Hermione has romantic feelings for Harry

[Penny & Bryce]

No: HPFGUIDX 34013

Hi --

jchutney wrote:


> I always find the argument that Hermione has her heart set on Harry
> instead of Ron fascinating because I see it so differently.  Your
> examples of hug post Potions, fretting & fussing, responses to 
> Harry's performance after 2nd Task, even the kiss all seem to stem
> from deep friendship with no hint that it is romantic as opposed to 
> platonic.

Oh, sure, it could be.  There's *also* no evidence that she feels 
anything more than platonic friendship for Ron either though.  :--)

  I strongly disagree with your view that she was trying to
> elicit a jealous reaction from Krum.

You misinterpreted my statement.  I didn't mean that Hermione was 
*trying* to make Krum jealous of Harry.   Quite the opposite.  I think 
her actions/statements/conversation about Harry had that effect, and I 
daresay she would have been horrified to know about the Krum/Harry 
conversation.  She either (a) has only platonic feelings for Harry, in 
which case she'd be embarassed that Krum interpreted it that she has 
romantic interest in Harry and raised the subject with Harry (ouch! how 
embarassing!) OR (b) does have some romantic interest in Harry, in which 
case she'd be REALLY embarassed that Krum recognized it & took it up 
with Harry.

 Also, Harry & Hermione both have
> money - why wouldn't they give each other expensive gifts?

I don't know that we have much evidence that Hermione has money.  I 
suspect her family is reasonably well-off; they gave her what appears to 
be a nice sum of money to spend on her birthday gift in POA.  But, other 
than that, I can't think of anything to indicate one way or another what 
the Granger's financial status might be.

> Other reasons I don't think JKR has set up H/H 

I don't think JKR has set up H/H.  I think she's setting up FITD ... a 
love triangle if you will (Ron likes Hermione, who likes Harry, who 
likes no one or someone *other than* Hermione).  I am very very in favor 
of H/H as an eventual outcome, but I don't think JKR has "set up" H/H. 
I just don't think she's set up R/H or H/G either.


> she may have a well planned change of course in BkV) are the things
> that are NOT there but (IMO) should be if H was set on H: Ron is NOT
> jealous of H/H. The alleged H/H relationship mentioned in Rita's
> article does not seem to affect him.  Ron is jealous of everything
> about Harry EXCEPT for his relationship with Hermione. If something
> were there, wouldn't Ron notice it?  Ron even suggests that Hermione
> take EITHER him or Harry to the Yule Ball. Ron is later angered by
> the Skeeter's portrayal of Hermione as a "scarlet" woman, toying with
> Harry & Viktor.  There seems, once again, to be no evidence R is
> jealous of H/H.

Not yet!  Hee, hee.  Ron's pretty darn clueless in the whole romance 
sphere in GoF.  You really think this is something that Ron would 
notice?  He's barely reached the point of noticing that Hermione *is* a 
girl in fact .... let alone that she might have romantic feelings for 
someone of the opposite sex.  I'm a full-fledged member of 
R.I.O.T.G.E.A.R. (look it up in the acronyms file!) so I don't think 
this argument has much sway.

> 
> Post Yule Ball, Hermione yells at Ron that next time there's a ball
> he should ask her out before someone else does.  If her heart were
> set on Harry, WHY would Hermione invite Ron to ask her out?

Sigh.  She's not necessarily inviting Ron to ask her out.  She *might* 
be, but yes, there is another interpretation.  What is the likely thing 
that Ron said to her before Harry poked his head into the common room? 
It probably was something along the lines of what he told her at the 
Ball (you're fraternizing with the enemy by going with Krum).  Let's 
assume that's what he said:

Ron: "You were fraternizing with the enemy by going to the ball with Krum!"

[Enter Harry]

Hermione: "Well if you don't like it, you know what the solution is, 
don't you?"
Ron: "What?"
Hermione: "Next time there's a ball ask me first instead of as a last 
resort!"

So, the "it" is most likely the fact that she went to the Ball with a 
student not from Hogwarts.  The "it" is not the fact that she had a date 
other than Ron; the "it" is the fact that she had a date with a 
Durmstrang student.  She's angry & upset that he's badgering her about 
something that she sees as perfectly legit ... her attending the Ball 
with (and hanging around with/striking up a romantic relationship with) 
one of the foreign students.

If you look at the overall context of the entire Yule Ball scene, you 
know several things:

1.  Hermione was very offended by the fact that Ron explicitly said he 
wanted to go with the "prettiest" girl who'd go with him.
2.  She was also offended that he waited until the last possible second 
& then *assumed* that she could/would go with him or Harry [note that he 
never actually asks her to be his date].

So, I take her remarks more to mean: I'm really angry that you're 
insinuating I'm giving Krum secret information or otherwise doing 
anything "wrong" by attending the Ball with Krum.  And, besides, you 
wanted the "pretty girl," remember?  Maybe if you had asked me sooner 
instead of as a last resort, I'd have gone with you.

I don't her interpret her remarks as: "Ooh, Ron, I wish you'd asked me 
sooner, and next time there's a Ball be sure to ask me first, because 
I'll go with you."  That makes no sense to me in the overall context of 
the situation.  She was pissed off that he made the assumption that he 
could ask her at the last second ... and she was really pissed off that 
he said she had done something wrong by going with Krum.

Any evidence that Hermione might not have already had a date set up with 
Krum at the time of the "prettiest girl who'll have you" conversation? 
I don't think so; I think it's possible she'd had that date set up for 
quite some time.  I see no evidence that she was hoping Ron would ask 
her & accepted with Krum as it became evident Ron wasn't going to do so.

*Besides* ... she's a teenage girl.  Next time there's a Ball she may 
have a completely different boy in mind than Krum OR Ron.  <g>

 
> In addition, she seems quite jealous of Fleur in specific.

She *hates* Fleur and it's not specifically related to Ron's infatuation 
with Fleur.  She's not jealous of her IMO.  She disliked Fleur's haughty 
attitude from the second Fleur disembarked from the Beauxbatons carriage 
on the Hogwarts grounds.  That was *before* Ron made a prat of himself 
over her.  I think her dislike of Fleur is general, not specific (and 
possibly a red herring).

 
> Cho is grouped in with her tirade against pretty people.

Where?

  If Hermione's
> heart is set on Harry instead of Ron, why is she unable to clearly
> see Ron's tirades against Krum for what they are?

She *does* see Ron's tirades against Krum for what they are!  I have no 
doubt whatever that Hermione knows exactly what the nature of Ron's 
feelings are for her.  This does *not* mean that she returns them 
though.  That's the logic leap that puzzles me.  Ron likes Hermione so 
R/H.  Er ... no.

 She's clearly hurt
> that it takes Ron so long to see her as a "girl"; she's hurt when he
> alleges Viktor is only using her to get to Harry, etc.

She's angry in the first instance.  In the second, yes, she's hurt. 
This doesn't add any points to my Ron column btw.  He's downright mean 
to Hermione at the Ball ... intentionally mean as a matter of fact. 
This does nothing to make me any more disposed toward the R/H pairing.

 
> 
> Finally, the most important person in the world to Harry is Ron.  The
> Weasleys are his favorite family. Harry doesn't have romantic
> feelings for Hermione. Would he really choose Hermione over Ron? 

Er ... so you're saying that Ron will always, always love Hermione, no 
matter what, and therefore there's no possible way that Harry & Hermione 
could ever get together, even years down the road, without alienating 
the entire Weasley clan?  What does that say about the Weasleys, first 
of all?  I'd like to think they are better people than that.  Harry and 
Hermione (but esp. Harry) are both already part of the Weasley family in 
many ways.  Neither needs to marry a Weasley to stay in the good graces 
of that loving family.  But, really ... more importantly, why in the 
world do we suppose that Ron's first crush is likely to affect his life 
(as well as Harry & Hermione's) for the rest of their lives?  It'd 
actually be fine with me if R/H did happen in Book 5 since I doubt it 
would last (all that bickering ... destined to fail IMO).  Most H/H'ers 
favor it as a post-Hogwarts pairing.

> Perhaps JKR is setting up a Ron loves Hermione loves Harry loves Ron
> story (very Arthurian Legends!).  Yet I can't see (at this point)
> Hermione trying to come between best friends any more than I can see
> Harry going after the girl Ron wants. It's just too soapy, and IMO,
> unworthy of JKR.

Ah, but who says Hermione would "go after" Harry?  Maybe she's just 
pining away for him in secret (teenage girls do this *alot*), knowing 
that now isn't the right time?  It still doesn't mean that she'll be 
eager to date Ron, if she doesn't have any romantic interest in him.

Guess we'll have to wait & see, eh?!!

Penny