SHIP: R/H, H/H (was ADMIN...)

[jchutney]

No: HPFGUIDX 34019

Penny & Bryce <pennylin at s...> wrote:
> Oh, sure, it could be. There's *also* no evidence that she feels 
anything more than platonic friendship for Ron either though. :--)>

Wow, we see very different things!  I guess that's why there's 
instant replay, IRL!  LOL!

> You misinterpreted my statement. I didn't mean that Hermione was 
*trying* to make Krum jealous of Harry. >

OK

> I don't know that we have much evidence that Hermione has money. I 
suspect her family is reasonably well off; they gave her what appears 
to 
be a nice sum of money to spend on her birthday gift in POA. But, 
other 
than that, I can't think of anything to indicate one way or another 
what 
the Granger's financial status might be.>

Her parents are both dentists.  IN MY EXPERIENCE (and the UK is 
probably different), 2 dentists with 1 child (no mention of siblings) 
would be considered wealthy.  However, I should not have assumed UK 
dentists are like US dentists.

>I don't think JKR has set up H/H. I think she's setting up FITD ... 
a 
love triangle if you will (Ron likes Hermione, who likes Harry, who 
likes no one or someone *other than* Hermione). I am very very in 
favor 
of H/H as an eventual outcome, but I don't think JKR has "set up" 
H/H. 
I just don't think she's set up R/H or H/G either.> 

I just find it odd that JKR hasn't (IMO) even dropped hints of H/H 
if they are meant to be post Bk7. And I do think, at the very least, 
JKR has set-up hints of R/H and H/G. I've already discussed R/H. 
With H/G, there is the physical similarity to James-Lily, the fact 
that they were both "touched" by Voldemort, Ginny's longstanding 
(especially for a teen!) crush.  In no way, I am saying H/G WILL or 
SHOULD get together.  I am only saying that JKR has dropped a few 
hints that they MIGHT be.

>Not yet! Hee, hee. Ron's pretty darn clueless in the whole romance  
sphere in GoF. You really think this is something that Ron would 
notice? He's barely reached the point of noticing that Hermione *is* 
a girl in fact .... let alone that she might have romantic feelings 
for someone of the opposite sex. I'm a full-fledged member of 
R.I.O.T.G.E.A.R. (look it up in the acronyms file!) so I don't think 
this argument has much sway.>
We see Ron differently.  I don't think he's an idiot.  I think he 
lets his many strong and conflicting emotions cloud his judgment. 
Like you, I have a high opinion of Harry& Hermione, and I don't 
think they would stay friends with him if he were totatlyy thick. And 
yes, I think Ron's jealousy of Harry is so strong (NOT an attractive 
quality) that he would pick up on Hermione's preference for Harry.
 
> Sigh. She's not necessarily inviting Ron to ask her out. She 
*might* be, but yes, there is another interpretation. What is the 
likely thing that Ron said to her before Harry poked his head into 
the common room? It probably was something along the lines of what he 
told her at the Ball (you're fraternizing with the enemy by going 
with Krum). Let's assume that's what he said:
Ron: "You were fraternizing with the enemy by going to the ball with 
Krum!"
[Enter Harry]
Hermione: "Well if you don't like it, you know what the solution is, 
don't you?"
Ron: "What?"
Hermione: "Next time there's a ball ask me first instead of as a last 
resort!"
So, the "it" is most likely the fact that she went to the Ball with a 
student not from Hogwarts. The "it" is not the fact that she had a 
date other than Ron; the "it" is the fact that she had a date with a 
Durmstrang student. She's angry & upset that he's badgering her about 
something that she sees as perfectly legit ... her attending the Ball 
with (and hanging around with/striking up a romantic relationship 
with) one of the foreign students.>

LOL!  You should be a defense lawyer!  I addressed ONLY what we know 
to be true. Hermione invited Ron to ask her out.  You supplied an 
unsubstantiated context for why she would ask him to do so EVEN 
though she really does NOT want him to?  Our opinions of Hermione 
diverge here.  I don't think Hermione is as controlled by her 
emotions as Ron is.  Even in PoA, when Hermione hit Draco, she seemed 
to be making a logical choice!  LOL!  Also, if the real issue 
addressed her is Hermione's disloyalty to Gryffindor, than why 
doesn't Ron get on her for not going on with Neville?

>"Ooh, Ron, I wish you'd asked me sooner, and next time there's a 
Ball be sure to ask me first, because I'll go with you." That makes 
no sense to me in the overall context of the situation. She was 
pissed off that he made the assumption that he could ask her at the 
last second ... and she was really pissed off that he said she had 
done something wrong by going with Krum.>

Oh, I so don't see Hermione as some heartsick schoolgirl swooning 
over her true love.  She's too smart for that!  J  No doubt, she 
wants to throttle him half the time.  However, why should she invite 
him to ask her out if she intends to turn him down?  Such a thing is 
totally out of character for Hermione, who prizes honesty and 
kindness.  IA that she was pissed off at Ron's assumptions and 
attacks. I ALSO think there may have been other things fueling her 
anger.  It's so hard to tell because it's all Harry's POV.

< *Besides* ... she's a teenage girl. Next time there's a Ball she 
may have a completely different boy in mind than Krum OR Ron. <g>>

Hmm
True but I see Hermione as far more mature and steady than the 
average girl. However, you are right. Neville could be the one!

>> Cho is grouped in with her tirade against pretty people.>>
>Where?>
In GoF page 253 H says to Harry & Ron re: Cho & Fleur : "When 
you've both put your eyes back in," said Hermione 
briskly, "you'll be able to see who's just arrived."

I assumed that Hermione saw Cho as a pretty person. It's not direct, 
but it seems to be the case. Hermione is not specific about Cho, 
which makes me think she's not jealous of her.

>She *does* see Ron's tirades against Krum for what they are! I have 
no doubt whatever that Hermione knows exactly what the nature of 
Ron's feelings are for her. This does *not* mean that she returns 
them though. That's the logic leap that puzzles me. Ron likes 
Hermione so 
R/H. Er ... no.>

I am not saying R likes H so H should like R. Not at all. I am saying 
H likes R, in spite of herself! Of course, he's not worthy of her! 
LOL! However, if she really were clear about Ron's feelings, 
wouldn't she find a way to defuse them, etc?  A situation where one 
best friend has unrequited romantic feelings for another is very 
tricky and could easily end the friendship. If H were clear about 
R's feeling and if they were unwelcome to her, surely she would try 
and dispassionate and kind way to let him down. 

>This does not add any points to my Ron column btw. He's downright 
mean to Hermione at the Ball ... intentionally mean as a matter of 
fact. This does nothing to make me any more disposed toward the R/H 
pairing.>

THIS is (IMO) the REAL reason there are so many H/Hers. Personally, I 
believe JKR is setting up H/R and is H/R "shipper". I could be wrong, 
but the evidence just points that way, to me. Yet there are many 
H/Hers, even though Harry has a crush on Cho and is desired by 
Ginny.  I think the H/Hers base their shipping on 2 big issues. #1 
Ron does not deserve Hermione. I can't argue with that. He doesn't. 
LOL! But just because he doesn't deserve her, doesn't mean he 
won't get her;). #2 Harry needs a witch worthy of him.  I agree that 
Hermione is far better than Ginny or Cho. However, just because 
she's the best, doesn't mean he'll fall for her.


> Er ... so you're saying that Ron will always, always love Hermione, 
no matter what, and therefore there's no possible way that Harry & 
Hermione could ever get together, even years down the road, without 
alienating the entire Weasley clan? What does that say about the 
Weasleys, first of all? I'd like to think they are better people than 
that. Harry and Hermione (but esp. Harry) are both already part of 
the Weasley family in many ways. Neither needs to marry a Weasley to 
stay in the good graces of that loving family. But, really ... more 
importantly, why in the world do we suppose that Ron's first crush is 
likely to affect his life >

I guess I don't see Ron's feelings for Hermione ending. I am in 
college but I still love a former boyfriend from High School.  Just 
because it doesn't work out, it doesn't mean feelings end.  In 
addition, I think teens are capable of real love.  Moreover, the 
point about Ron & the Weasleys is that going after someone your 
friend desires IS bad form.  In my circle, friendships are sacred. If 
Ron was totally over Hermione, I suppose he might not care
.I just 
can't see that at this moment.

> Ah, but who says Hermione would "go after" Harry? Maybe she's just 
pining away for him in secret (teenage girls do this *alot*), knowing 
that now isn't the right time? It still doesn't mean that she'll be 
eager to date Ron, if she doesn't have any romantic interest in him.>

OK. This is Harry Potter we're talking about!  It took him a year 
and half to approach Cho! If Hermione likes him, she had better go 
after him, cause Harry's way too shy to go after a girl! If Hermione 
decides to pine in secret (and that's ooc IMO), she'll be in a 
nursing home before H/H happens!  J

>Guess we'll have to wait & see, eh?!!>

Agreed!  

jchutney