SHIP: Possibility Hermione has romantic feelings

[Penny & Bryce]

No: HPFGUIDX 34063

Hi --

Eileen said:


>  > > 1. Hermione is a cruel insensitive girl who implies to  Ron that
> she
>  > > would go to a ball with him, knowing perfectly well what his
> feelings
>  > > are, when she wouldn't.
>  > > 2. Hermione does return some of the interest.

I added:

>  >
>  > OR
>  >
>  > 3.  Hermione, offended because her friend assumes that he can just
> use
>  > her as a last-ditch date when he can't get a "pretty girl" and then
> even
>  > more offended when said friend questions her ethics in choosing
> another
>  > date, throws off some remarks in the heat of an argument.  Maybe she
>  > would have phrased her remarks differently if they'd been having a
> cool,
>  > calm conversation.

Eileen responded with:

> 
> This is just a slightly different rephrasing of #1.

No, cruel & insensitive = calculating; thrown off in the emotional heat 
of an argument is *not* calculating.  #1 is the argument that (a) 
Hermione knew at the time of the argument how Ron felt about her, and 
(b) made a calculated decision in the course of an argument to hurt Ron 
by implying that she would accept a date with him.  I find #1 highly 
doubtful, but #2 is not the only remaining possibility.  #3 assumes that 
Hermione said something in the course of an argument that she might not 
have said in a cool, calm conversation OR that she some things in an 
argument without prior knowledge of Ron's feelings for her (or both).

>> 4.  Hermione, who has a bit of romantic interest in more than one
> boy
>> (gasp!  Can teenage girls do *that*?!), sends off some mixed
> signals.

> And this is just #2 all over again.

No, #2 is, I think, an argument that Hermione Likes Ron and is inviting 
him to ask her out (wanted it all along) & has no romantic feelings for 
any other males.  I'm saying that even if she *was* implying that she'd 
like him to ask her out, this doesn't mean that she *doesn't* have 
romantic feelings for Harry or Krum for that matter (or isn't confused 
about which boy, if any, she might prefer).

 But I've noticed that H/H shippers refuse to even
> acknowledge that such feelings exist in this scene.

I lean toward the interpretation that Hermione was angry & she was 
having an argument with Ron.  I also agree with Christi that she was not 
necessarily inviting Ron to ask her out.  But, the possibility is there 
that she does have feelings for Ron & was inviting him to ask her out. 
I just don't believe that's as strong an argument, that's all.  Doesn't 
mean I can't see it as a plausible argument at all.  But, my take is 
that the preponderence of evidence in the series as a whole so far 
weighs in favor of Hermione having romantic interest in Harry, not Ron.

Eileen, in another post, said:

> OTOH, the children of the wizarding world grow up much
> faster than ours. I believe I posted awhile ago that they are expected
> by around 18 years old to have taken up the position of 30 year olds
> in our society. I wouldn't be surprised if marriages were earlier
> (just as in our own past), and people met their spouses while they
> were still teen-agers. So far, we've seen at least two marriages that
> came out of Hogwarts.

We know that James & Lily both attended Hogwarts & were presumably the 
same class year based on Hagrid's remark that they were Head Boy & Head 
Girl in their time.  But, do we know that they dated at Hogwarts?  Maybe 
they only knew each other at Hogwarts & hooked up later on.  We don't 
even know for sure *when* they married.  We do know that Molly & Arthur 
had some romantic relationship at Hogwarts, but do we know that they 
never dated anyone else or that they married straight away after leaving 
Hogwarts?  I'm curious where people have this idea that marriages are 
young in the wizarding world, and I'd be especially interested in any 
canon evidence for Eileen's statement above that, in the wizarding 
world, 18 yr olds are expected to take up the societal position of 30 yr 
olds.  Is this based on something in canon or just supposition or opinion?

kt said, though it pains her to say it:

>> If JKR is intent on maintaining the trio however, then I would
>> personally say that - if a romantic element is going to play a
> major
>> part in the series' conclusion - Harry, as the chief protagonist,
>> will end up with Hermione.

Ah, Katy, why does it pain you to say it?  <g>  You can reply offlist.  :--)

Eileen responded with:

> 
> I understand that the girlfriend who appears from nowhere would upset
> things, but why is it Harry who needs to get involved in a romance?
> Wouldn't this argument also support a Ron-Hermione pairing? And,
> isn't Ginny already part of the picture, unlike Cho Chang, with a
> defined relationship to the trio?

As best I can tell, Ginny's relationship to the Trio is that of an 
annoying younger sister who is actively excluded from their activities. 
  I would think she's about on even footing with a complete outsider 
frankly.

Gwen said:

<snip lots of excellent commentary>

> "I think her interaction with Ron, particularly her frustration when he
> doesn't perform
> up to her par on either academic issues or questions of their
> mystery-solving, is indicative of a desire to see Ron be something he isn't.
> Or at least, isn't yet. I think her anger at him and her hurt reactions to
> his teasing (especially about Viktor) are clues that she does Like him, but
> is perhaps waiting for him to grow up and realize it. And personally, I
> believe it would be a disaster if they did get together. Hermione is doing
> something that, unfortunately, many intelligent, otherwise sensible young
> (and not so young) women do: banking on potential, not reality."

I can definitely see this; it is a funny trend, isn't it?  I think *if* 
Hermione does Like Ron or ends up Liking Ron, it would be a disaster, 
and this is one of the reasons why.  I don't see how Ron could ever live 
up to her expectations .... which is not to say that he's *not* good 
enough for her.  It just means that I think she probably has some high 
expectations and would be frustrated by Ron's inability to meet them, 
which would lead to more bickering & arguing, endless cycle of 
unhappiness & messy icky relationship.  :--)  IMO of course.

> Again, in some sense, I think that to all three of them,
> the friendship is more important than romantic feelings, and that eventually
> they will acknowledge that while they love each other, they are not "in
> love" with each other. (I base this on experiences in small classes of
> tightly knit circles of friends who had been together in small classes of
> tightly knit circles of friends for at least as long as the kids have been.)
> Yes, they both (or all) may have lingering attractions for one another, but
> again, human emotions are messy. It's very possible to be attracted to
> someone long after you either know that it's not going to work or realize
> that it's a bad idea or even hate the person's guts. It becomes easier to
> live with in time. And right now, they're all confused kids. 

I think it would be perfectly plausible for this to be the end result 
for the end of the canon years.  But it isn't that far-fetched for close 
friends to eventually turn to romance when both parties are adults & 
have sampled the waters some.  I favor post-Hogwarts H/H because I think 
they are suited and I can believe in that relationship .... but it makes 
much more sense to me as a relationship that grows with time & bonding & 
after exploration of other options.  It does not make sense to me that 
because Ron had an obvious crush on Hermione when they were 15 yrs old, 
that H/H is precluded forevermore on the grounds that it isn't cool to 
go after a friend's love interest.  People grow up, and I fully expect 
our Trio to do the same.  Unless R/H happens & *lasts*, there's no 
reason why Hermione couldn't hook up with Harry later on.

Penny