Translation WAS Re: Dumbledore's Motives - Fanged Servant - Abroad - French

[bboy_mn]

No: HPFGUIDX 40972

> --- In HPforGrownups at y..., "pamscotland" <Pam at b...> wrote:
> > --- In HPforGrownups at y..., "bboy_mn" <bboy_mn at y...> wrote:
> > <snip>

BBOY_MN Originally Said: 
> > > Sorry to be such a jerk about this issue but it really punches
my buttons. I have never been able to come up with even the most
obscure twisted path of logic, that justifies translating a person
name.< < <
 
PAMSCOTLAND said:
> > It depends what you mean by 'translate'.  Most British English
readers would probably not know that old English 'dumbledore' implied
'bumble bee' until someone told them or they read it somewhere.  I
would therefore understand a Spanish translation using an Old Spanish
word for a bumble bee for Dumbledore's name. < <

BBOY_MN Replies: 
You still missed the point. Regardless of what Dumbldore means, it's
his name. Names are never translated. Regardless of what the cultural
or historical origins are of the word 'Dumbledore'; it's still his
name. If most USA/UK/AUS English people don't know that 'dumbledore'
translate to 'bumble bee' in modern english, then what's the point of
translating it in another language.

And if 'Dumbledore' means 'bumblebee' then why didn't the English
versions translated it into modern English and change it to Albus
Bumblebee? Why? Because in any language, in any location on the face
of the earth, the mans name is still Albus Dumbledore. The roots and
origins of any persons name become no more than a curiousity once the
name is assigned as a person's surname. After that point, a persons
name is a persons name. My name has it's root in the word 'beer';
regardless of what it means or where it came from, my name is my name,
no matter where I go in the world. 

When they wrote English papers about the scientist Albert Einstein,
did they change his name to Albert One-stone? Because that is the
translation into English of his name. NO, they didn't. Why? Because
his name is his name, it's never changes, it's never translated; an
exception might be something like Chinese or Japanese, or unrelated to
story translation, a person might legally change their name. Another
exception might be if the person's name is some kind of pun or joke,
that is, there is some significance in a persons name that requires it
to be change so people speaking another language get the joke.
Example: a fat guy named Lardbottom. But the fact the Dumbledore means
'bumblebee' has no significants beyond a curious bit of trivia.
  
PAMSCOTLAND said: 
> > But then it gets too complicated.  We surely have to accept that
every word written in British English has associations for people
whose first language is British English which may not be there for
people whose first language is something else (even if it's American
English, Canadian English, Australian English etc.)  What those
associations may be vary from person to person, even within the same
language group, depending on whether or not they have had a similar
education and background and taste in reading as JKR.  (I'm a Jane
Austen fan and think that American readers who are also Austen fans
understand things that British readers who are not Austen fans may
have missed.) < <
 
 
BBOY_MN Replies:
Again there is a big difference between words and names. Words, unique
cultural references, unfamiliar terms, etc all make sense to translate
into something meaningful to the local language. "Sherbert lemon' to
'lemon drop' make sense when going from UK English to US English,
because sherbert is like ice cream in the US. But regardless of how
you  interpret 'hard lemon candy' in any language, my name is still
Beers and Dumbledore name is still Albus Dumbledore.
 

PAMSCOTLAND said:
> > I think I'm probably with you - it seems practically impossible to
translate a piece of literature from one language to another such that
all the words have all the same possible associations in both
languages - no more and no less.
 ... ... ... BNS (Big Nasty EDIT ... ... ...
numbers etc.
 
 Pam S < <


BBOY_MN Replies: 
Again, how could anyone dispute the tranlation of the story, and the
modification of unique cultural references and many many other things
that could justifiably be change, altered, or translated. But that
doesn't change the fact that no matter where the man goes, his name is
still Albus Dumbledore.
 
 ...and yes, I am aware that I am still being a jerk about this, but
peoples names are never translated.
 
BBOY_MN