Teaching methods was ( Re: Petunia)

[naamagatus]

No: HPFGUIDX 41187

--- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Irene Mikhlin" <irene_mikhlin at b...> wrote:

> Let me start with stating that I love McGonagall. I'd rather be in 
> her class, I guess. But we don't know how if she is really as fair 
> as Harry thinks, do we? May be Slytherins love her just as much as 
> Gryffindors love Snape. Her sarcasm skills are second to none,  
>that's for sure.

But ... we do see McGonagall being very strict with Gryffindors, 
remember? It's emphasised in PS that she *doesn't* favor the 
Gryffindors. She gave a very harsh punishment to Harry, Hermione and 
Neville - deducting the same number of House points for each of them 
as she did for Draco, right? I don't have the books here, so I can't 
find the exact quote, but she is portrayed as a *very* strict and 
fair teacher. 
Anyway, I don't think that the "oh, but it's just Harry's POV" 
argument is fair. Since the whole story is told (more or less) from 
Harry's POV, then we should either discredit the integrity of any and 
every fact or description we are told of, or accept the whole lot. If 
we don't, it becomes a matter of arbitrarily selecting those facts 
that agree with our theories and discrediting those that don't. 

> 
> > Um.  The students are supposed to be *learning* potions, not being
> desensitized to the gross unfairness of the world.  Trust me, kids 
will
> teach this to each >other without any outside help.  You're saying 
that
> these kids need their wills broken in order to do well in the 
outside world?
> 
> No, who was saying anything about wills broken? Who had his will 
broken as a
> result of Potions class, anyway?
> Not Harry and not Hermione and not anyone else we know about.

Well, maybe not as dramatic as having his will broken, but Neville is 
completely cowered by Snape, isn't he? At thirteen, the thing he most 
fears is Snape. I think that very clearly shows us the level of 
torment he suffers at Snape's hands. *I* think that in real life it 
would amount to real abuse - the kind you need counselling for at 
some point.

<snip>

> 
> >
> > Irene:
> > >So, in light of this theory failing marks are really not good 
enough for Neville.
> > >He needs this extra push to get the magic out of him. And it's 
>>>either very powerful, or very unfocused - just ask all those 
melted >>>cauldrons.
> >
> > If a teacher treated me the way Snape treats Neville, I would  be 
>>hard pressed to find the motivation to work hard for him as well.
> 
> Not very different from the way his own family treated him to get 
>some magic out of him.

My problem with the whole "tough love" Snape theory is that there's 
absolutely no *evidence* to support it. It's completely speculative. 
Specifically, I don't think it's fair to compare Neville's treatement 
by his family and Neville's treatment by Snape, since we are *told* 
why Neville's family did all those things to him, whereas we are not 
given any motive for Snape's behavior, other than general nastiness. 
Furthermore, we don't see *any* improvement in Neville's performance 
in potions. He *doesn't* get better because he is stressed, he 
*doesn't* get better because his pet is threatened. The picture we 
get is of Neville continuing in potions as bumbling, nervous and 
inept. I mean, if JKR wanted Snape to have some underlying motive to 
his bullying, she did a very bad job in presenting it to the reader, 
didn't she? 

> 
> Darrin says:
> 
> >Except for Hermione making the Polyjuice Potion, we have no 
evidence
> >of anyone getting anything out of Snape's classes except migraines.
> 
> Who taught Harry Expelliarmus? Who put him in touch with his inner
> Parselmouth?

That didn't happen in potions class, but at the duelling club. 


Naama, who wonders how many fans Snape would have had if he had a pug 
instead of a hooked nose <veg>