Harry and Hermione (WAS Harry and Women)

[darrin_burnett]

No: HPFGUIDX 41397

--- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Laura Ingalls Huntley" <huntleyl at m...> 
wrote:
> Kel:
> >Ah, I'm not so sure here. Harry seems to fall into the typical male
> >(mis)understanding of the female role (Virgin/Whore); most males 
tend to
> >view women as one or the other. And his friendship with Hermione 
is just
> >that- a friendship (she's not even a sister).<snip> 
> >There has been discussion not too long ago about the issue of 
sexuality in
> >the stories, and I am hoping that Harry will come to understand 
that
> >females are not just one or the other.
> 


The books are far too chaste for such real world vulgarities as the 
Virgin/Whore theory.

Witness the Percy/Penelope relationship. Percy, a 16-year-old, is 
upset because he is caught KISSING his girlfriend. How Victorian can 
you get???

There are euphemisms in the story for how real world boys and girls 
would interact. Harry's "stomach churning" when he thinks of Cho 
would translate to something else in a real 13-year-old (it would be 
pretty embarassing if he had to transfigure a toad in front of the 
class)

Likewise, the "barking mad" comment Ron makes about Hermione in GoF 
would likely involve a phrase with the words "time," "must," "month" 
and "be" incorporated if it was a real conversation between 14-year-
old boys.

The PoA/GoF age is almost exactly the right age for this kind of 
stupidity. Girls have developed and guys have finally noticed in a 
Beavis and Butthead sort of way. 

But Harry's observations and reactions to women are chaste, 1950s 
kinds of things. He flushes red, he gets a woogly stomach. And 
the "girls moving in packs" thing may be a stereotype, but the dirty 
secret about stereotypes is that some of them are true.

Girls moving in school hallways in packs IS TRUE! Some feminists just 
can't remember being adolescents.
 
But anyway, I don't think Virgin/Whore fits because the last thing on 
Harry's mind is actual sex. It just doesn't compute with the books, 
which is why I got so aggravated at the attempts to shoehorn 
sexuality into the books.

The one real hint of sexuality we get (and not the homoerotic 
nonsense put forward because Harry had to rescue Ron) is what was 
going on in the bushes after the dance. 

Heh-heh... I bet Snape VOLUNTEERED for that job, the little pervert.

> Exhibit B: Hermione.  I'm not sure why you dismiss Hermione and 
Harry's relationship as "just" friendship, when it seems to me that 
the fact that Hermione is Friend to Harry negates the claim that he 
views women as either Virgin/Whore (again, I'm not familiar with this 
theory, so I may be getting what you were trying to say wrong).  And 
she's not *just* his friend, either.  She's his Wise Woman, as well 
as being available for emotional support (in GoF).  Furthermore, 
she's a good role model for Harry.  ^_~ No, really.  Esp. in GoF when 
Rita was writing those awful things about him and the Slytherins were 
being insufferable.  She told Harry what my mother used to tell me 
when I was having trouble with other kids: ignore them.  And yet, she 
is also ruthless at times (the Polyjuice Potion, hitting Malfoy, Rita 
Skeeter), and I think that her ambition, intelligence, 
responsibility, and willingness to go out on a limb really 
demonstrate to Harry that females are certainly forces to be reckoned 
with.  But again, Hermione achieves *all* these things *without* 
being neuter in both the sexual and emotional senses.


Watching Hermione's slow and subtle growth from almost genderless 
extra buddy to complicated young woman has been a joy to watch. She 
is not only brainy, but she's self-aware. It was wonderful watching 
her have one night, the Yule Ball, where she was liked for something 
besides her Arithmancy homework, but then she went right back to her 
everyday self. Nothing unhealthy at all about a little dress-up. 
Isn't that what prom is anyway?


> In fact, the only females I can think of that Harry ever views in 
what seems to be a purely sexual manner are Fleur and Cho.  Fleur, I 
suppose, being the Whore, and Cho being the Virgin?  But by the end 
of GoF, Harry learns that there is much more to Fleur than her looks.

To me, Fleur is there to demonstrate how 14-year-old boys react. Not 
much magic involved, really. Frankly, there is not much difference 
between Ron screaming: "I invented a broomstick that can reach 
Jupiter" and the average bar pick-up line.



  As for Cho, Harry may have been attracted to her physically, but it 
is also demonstrated to the reader that she has many respectable 
traits -- she is kind, considerate, brave, and strong enough to 
withstand peer pressure.  

My guess on Cho is that this will be the Don Quixote "true love, 
chaste from afar" kind of thing. Somewhere in book 6, as Cho is 
getting ready to leave, Harry will realize that she liked him too, 
but he was afraid to approach her. 



<As far as I can see, *all* the females in Harry's life that aren't 
supposed to be viewed as farces by the reader (i.e. Trelawney, 
Lavender, Pavarti) are portrayed, IMO, as strong people -- with the 
exception of Ginny, who certainly is making headway by GoF -- at 
least to the point where she defies the female stereotype of being 
gossipy by keeping Hermione's secrets, and doesn't make a *complete* 
fool of herself when Ron suggests that she go to the Yule Ball with 
Harry.
> 

Look, Trelawney is a joke character (who has been crucial to moving 
the plot along at times), but what is really so farcial about 
Lavender and Parvati? 

Parvati seems like a normal girl. A little giggly, maybe, and 
definitely annoyed that Harry doesn't pay much attention to her at 
the dance, which SHE WAS RIGHT TO FEEL. Jeez, Harry and Ron take 
Parvati and Padma and then ignore them for Cho and Hermione? I'd be 
ticked too. And I'd consider ditching them too.

And so Padma got a little shallow about Ron's dress robes. What 14-
year-old girl wouldn't be a little worried about her date's attire? 

Anyone that says these girls are unrealistic -- and that Ron's 
behavior, Harry's fear of asking girls to the dance and the 
general "ewww...girls" of the early books is some psychobabble theory 
doesn't remember that age.


Darrin
-- I remember, and I'm never going back! You can't make me!