The Spying Game and the Shrieking Shack

[bluesqueak]

No: HPFGUIDX 39698

--- In HPforGrownups at y..., "pippin_999" <foxmoth at q...> wrote:
> I find it hard to argue with a post that posits competent!Snape 
> and acknowledges the possibility of evil!Lupin. However, I  
> disagree with the central and unspoken premise that the 
> situation at the beginning of PoA is identical to the situation 
> during the Voldemort years and post-GoF. 
> 
> Voldemort is in exile at the beginning of PoA, far more thoroughly 
> isolated, weakened and disgraced than Napoleon on St. Helena. 
> Even his erstwhile followers have no more use for him. It is very 
> unlike the terrorist war you referred to in your post, where even  
> jailed  leaders still wielded considerable power and influence 
> from their cells, and it might make sense to plant a weakened 
> lieutenant in their midst.  

Ummm....Well, I may argue in more detail against the 'erstwhile 
followers have no more use for him' theory at some later date; but if 
analysing the end of GoF takes as long as analysing the Shrieking 
Shack did, it's going to be a *much* later date. :-) What I will say 
is that I think Voldemort is lying through his teeth at the end of 
GoF. So is Malfoy. Malfoy is loyal to Voldemort throughout the 
disembodiment; he is simply not stupid enough to kill himself by 
letting Voldemort use his body.

Briefly, I would argue that Voldemort does have at least Malfoy, and 
quite possibly other followers left. Malfoy's action in giving Ginny 
the Tom Riddle diary (CoS) is extremely effective if you consider it 
as a tactic in a continuing war rather than just a piece of malicious 
revenge. It comes incredibly close to killing Harry, closing Hogwarts 
and discrediting Dumbledore and Arthur Weasley - two of Voldemorts 
major opponents. 

Equally, the Death Eater march in GoF does a very good job of 
distracting everyone while Barty Jr's making his first escape 
attempt. The problem turns out to be that no one has bothered telling 
Barty it's part of the plan.

Both the above could be sheer coincidence/Malfoy's private actions on 
their own; put together they look suspiciously like Voldemort is 
still wielding considerable power and influence as a disembodied wisp 
of gas [grin].

> 
> Even if Dumbledore regarded Voldemort's reembodiment as 
> ineviteable, and there is no indication of that, 

PoA, UK hardback p. 311 - (Harry has just told Dumbledore about Sybil 
Trelawney's prophecy that Voldemort will return to power) 
'... Harry looked at him, aghast. How could Dumbledore take this so 
calmly?'

> I find it hard to 
> believe that he and Snape would conspire to bring it about.  The 
> fact that Voldemort used Harry's blood offers a gleam of hope but 
> no more. It's clear that Dumbledore regards Voldemort's return 
> as a catastrophe for the entire wizarding world. It's not 
> something he wanted to have happen. 

OK. You are Dumbledore. You are the most powerful magician there is 
on the 'good' side [or the 'when-we-break-moral-rules-at-least-we-
hate-doing-it' side [grin] ]. And you have only managed to hold 
Voldemort down to a draw. In fact, until Voldemort tries to kill 
Harry Potter, you're losing (see Arthur Weasley's comments in GoF, 
the delight of the wizards in PS/SS, the extremely harsh measures 
mentioned in PoA and GoF).

And you cannot kill Voldemort.

Even little Harry couldn't. He could blast Voldemort out of his body 
by deflecting the AK, but he couldn't kill him. And Voldemort is 
clever, and he's determined. He is going to try and gain a new body 
so he can make a come-back (see PS/SS). And if you can't kill him you 
are going to have to stop him doing that again, and again, and again -
 and you only have to fail once. 

"...it will merely take someone else who is prepared to fight what 
seems a losing battle next time - and if he is delayed again, and 
again, why, he may never return to power." (Dumbledore, PS/SS UK 
paperback p. 216)

So what do you do, given the awful consequences of a Voldemort 
victory? Do you decide that you'll keep your fingers crossed and hope 
that you will always be able to stop him regaining his body? That 
there will always be someone willing to fight 'what seems a losing 
battle'? Or do you try and work out a way of controlling Voldemort's 
return, to make sure that when he does regain that body it will have 
some built in weaknesses that might eventually help you, or Harry 
Potter, or someone else in the distant future actually finish 
Voldemort for ever?

Yes, this is a deeply risky and decidedly 'grey' tactic. But it's 
probably the only one offering any hope of an end to Voldemort.

And what did Voldemort use to create a new body?  Which area is the 
one where Dumbledore is most likely to receive superb advice on how 
to create built-in problems? What subject is Snape most expert in?
Potions.


> 
>  I also don't like the idea of Harry as a puppet in the shack, 
> manipulated into doing whatever Dumbledore and Snape have 
> in mind. It undermines the theme of choices. 
> 
> Eleven year old Harry's belief that Dumbledore knows more or 
> less everything is, IMO, as much hero-worship as anything else.   
> In each book we see Dumbledore exercising less and less 
> control over events. To have Snape micromanaging the end of 
> PoA in the fashion you suggest would not be in keeping with the 
> pattern. 
> 
> Pippin

In the shack Snape is trying to force Harry to - well, for want of a 
better phrase, to grow up. To make choices with possibly serious 
consequences. Snape's manipulation in the shack is actually aimed at 
forcing Harry to make his *own* choices. He never, ever suggests that 
Harry should save Pettigrew; in fact he takes great care to imply 
that he has no knowledge of Pettigrew's existence. 

Snape's micromanaging in the hospital scene is aimed at keeping 
everyone free to continue to make their own decisions - instead of 
being hauled off to Azkaban for helping Pettigrew and Black to escape.

The fact that Dumbledore later admits he trusted Harry to make the 
right choice does not change the fact that Dumbledore and Snape both 
left Harry free to make that choice. Dumbledore is exercising less 
and less close control over events because, as the books continue, 
Harry is growing up. He has both the ability and the right to make 
his own decisions. He's becoming an ally, not a puppet.

Pip