Snape in Graveyard?/ Unforgivables/ Immortal vapour? etc

[Edblanning at aol.com]

No: HPFGUIDX 40022

Peggy Gross:

> Here's something I have wondered about concerning
> Snape. He had the Dark Mark on his arm and felt it
> burn so he knew Voldemort is back. Why didn't he tell
> Dumbledore when he felt it? That would have been a way
> to track where Harry and Cedric were. Dumbledore could
> have sent Snape to help. 
> 
Well, what if he *did*?

Cindy:
> >> You know, I'm still tempted to go with Stunning!Harry -- the idea 
>> that Harry has some sort of wicked protection around him to protect 
>> against certain DE spells.  Remember that Shield Charm that Harry 
>> couldn't work.  I just can't figure out why else that Shield Charm 
>> is even in GoF if not to indicate that Harry has a natural shield 
>> against certain minor curses.  Harry ran, and the DEs really did try 
>> to stun him, but they couldn't because Harry's natural shield.

What if it wasn't Stunning!Harry's natural (shield-) charm, but Snape 
protecting him again?
I guess we're getting back to the issue of how much was known about what was 
happening in the middle of the maze. Snape must have known (from the new 
intesity of the Dark mark) that Voldemort was resurrected. Did Dumbledore 
know that Harry and Cedric were no longer in the maze, or think they were 
still in pursuit of the cup?

If they didn't know that Harry and Cedric were missing, there would not 
necessarily be reason for Snape to go to the graveyard. If, on the other hand 
they *did*, then it does seem out of character if Snape didn't try to do 
anything. He doesn't have any specified role at the Third Task, so he could 
have been free to go unnoticed and there certainly appears to have been time 
for him to have apparated back to the gates and have joined Dumbledore and 
McGonagall in rescuing Harry from Crouch/Moody.
..................

Pippin quotes Heidi:

> > Then again, Harry is still a bit in the Muggle take on life and 
> death. But in the wizarding world, where people see ghosts daily, 
> talk with them, even learn from them - there's no fear that there's 
> only nothingness after death. Unless, as I suspect, the true 
> reason AK is unforgivable - not because it causes death, but 
> because it takes the soul and instead of setting it free for the next 
> great adventure, captures it in the caster's wand in perpetuity.
> >
> 
> I think it's unforgiveable because it's a spell that can *only* be 
> done with murderous intent and has no use other than killing.  
> AK and the other two spells are unforgiveable against humans 
> only, not, for example, spiders, so it's possible that they are 
> 


And it is also has no counter-curse, as it seems, do the other Unforgivables 
. I wonder if the Unforgivables became so during days when duelling was 
commonplace (sidenote - am I imagining that it says somewhere that it is now 
illegal, and if so, why did Hogwarts start a duelling club?). It would be 
extremely unsporting, to say the least, if you used an unblockable curse on 
your opponent. In fact, it is likely that all (serious, as opposed to 
sporting) duels would end up with two dead wizards. Or witches (I suppose I 
shouldn't be sexist about this). 

..........................
Charis Julia:

> So. . .Where was I? . . .Oh, what * is* it again! Well? Get it out 
> already! Huh? We don't know for sure that Arabella Figg lives in 
> Magnolia Crescent? That's just where Harry ended up after he blew up 
> Marge? Oh, please! What a feeble objection! Ok, then Mr Smart Guy. If 
> she didn't live in No2 Magnolia Crescent, where * did* she live? It 
> wasn't Privet Drive, Harry tells us it was a couple of streets away. 
> Do * you* know of any other streets in the Surrey of the Potterverse? 
> Ha! Didn't think so! 
> 

Sorry, this is going back a bit. I think there is canon evidence that 
Arabella *doesn't* live in Magnolia Crescent. Mrs Figg lives *two* streets 
from the Dursleys and Magnolia Crescent is *several* streets away. It's a 
nice distinction, but two isn't several in my book. No, Arabella lives in 
Cedar Road, or Acacia Avenue or Laburnum Mews or another street of your 
choice. I still like the idea of her and Sirius being an item, though.

.....................
Alexander:

>  I was re-reading 2nd book, when I had stumbled upon the
description of Harry's journey from Dursley's home to the
Burrow. It contained information that, as far as I knew,
contradicted the location of Ottery St. Catchpole given in
the HP Lexicon.

>  According to HPL ( www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon/ ),
Ottery St Catchpole (and the Burrow) are located somewhere
south of Bristol. At the same time Little Whinging is
located south of London. Thus, direction from Little
Whinging to the Burrow is *west*, only slightly to the
south.

  >Still, when I have read the book, it says smth along the
lines of:

  "You take too far to the west, Fred"
  Fred turned the wheel LEFT.

  Interesting. The only way this can happen is if they are
flying not in western, but in southern direction (any from
SW to SE, but mostly south).

 > There were already troubles with places named in the book
that cannot be found on England map. I have a strong
suspicion, that Ottery St. Catchpole is one of such places.
In no way this village can be located in Wales - it has to
be somewhere south from London, and very close to the Little
Whinging.

  >Note this theory has one additional argument: it took not
much time at all to fly from Little Whinging to the Burrow -
but Ford Anglia was not a racing sport car, and couldn't
cover about 250 kilometers in less than an hour (Weasleys
arrived to Little Whinging when it was already light, and
arrived to the Burrow when everybody was just getting up).

 > Of course maybe translators just garbled the words, but I
find it unlikely. Still, maybe somebody will check this up.

Eloise:
I'm afraid it *is* a mistranslation, Alexander. The English merely says Fred 
'twiddled the steering wheel'.

The location of Ottery St Catchpole is rather enigmatic, it's true and I have 
queried it myself before now. The name *sounds* very West Country; Ottery St 
Mary, presumably its etymological forbear, is a town in Devon, near the south 
coast (located on the River Otter), well south of Bristol. To get there from 
Surrey, you would indeed travel south west, not due west. I don't think we 
can say anything about the speed of the Flying Ford Anglia. After all, it is 
enchanted and even Muggle airborne vehicles tend to move faster than 
land-bound ones.
What *is* a problem as far as I am concerned is just how Molly got the 
children to the train on time from the West Country (*anywhere* in the West 
Country) in GOF especially having only phoned for taxis that morning.

..................
Pippin:
> What troubles me about the whole MAGIC DISHWASHER 
> scenario is that it's all predicated on the idea that Voldemort can't 
> be killed while he's a disembodied spirit. Dumbledore has to 
> force him to re-embody so that he can be destroyed, lest 
> Dumbledore perish of old age before Harry is ready to carry on 
> the fight.
> 
> There must have been some way to destroy the disembodied 
> Voldemort, or he would have had no reason to stay hidden. 
> Perhaps it was a means, such as Dementors, that Dumbledore 
> would never use. But the mere threat of it was enough to keep 
> Voldemort in hiding. In the twelve years before Pettigrew returned 
> to him, Voldemort managed to kill exactly one person. That 
> situation doesn't change  if Dumbledore dies.  It changes if 
> Voldemort comes back. 
> 

That's a good point. I've always believed the Voldemort is immortal whilst 
disembodied theory (mostly because Hagrid and Sirius do). So why was 
Voldemort in hiding? Well, even if he was immortal, he was pretty well 
powerless. Maybe, even if he couldn't be *killed* in that state, he could be, 
as it were, *contained*, *prevented* from regaining his powers.

However I think there is an argument against disembodied Voldemort being 
immortal. if he is, why does he need the unicorn blood? Firenze explains its 
purpose as being to *keep you alive*, suggesting that he *was* in danger of 
dying. Otherwise, why accept the cursed, half life that unicorn blood 
condemns him to?
(and why doesn't that curse continue?)

In fact, I am curious to know why Voldemort so wants to regain a body. He had 
already undergone great transformations from the days when he was Tom Riddle. 
One *might* expect that the next stage was some powerful, but non-corporeal 
form. The implication seems to be that to be effective, he requires a body, 
which I find odd, given that we know that wizards can use wandless magic.

Eloise
Who's finally caught up. Nearly.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]