Defense of Hagrid, Hagrid's Teaching, Flobberworms, etc.(long)

[aldrea279]

No: HPFGUIDX 40348

Some of this I'm a little late in getting to, I know.  But I've been 
really busy, so sorry.


Heidi:
>>And I agree with Jenny that there is 
no reason why Hagrid should've exposed a class of 13 year olds to a 
creature with razor sharp talons. Even if one of them hadn't been 
deliberately inattentive, there were SO many things that could've 
gone wrong, that it was an inherently risky thing to do.>>

I just can't see that this as inherently risky.  They're all training 
to be wizards and witches, for one.  Hagrid, also, is a half- giant 
and would be a match for any Hippogriff, I daresay.  If you want to 
say exposing a group of kids, *armed with their wands and three years 
of magical training* to some magical creatures is risky, then there 
are alot of things that regular schools do that are "risky".  Putting 
a bunch of teenage boys in a locker room with heavy objects is 
risky.  If you're lifting said heavy objects over your neck and are 
not careful, you can seriously injure yourself or kill yourself.  I 
know a guy at my school recently that broke his collarbone while 
weightlifting.  Science class can be "risky".  Using the bunsen 
burner, exposing teenage kids to what can be harmful 
chemicals...risky risky.  And then look at Potions class! Just having 
Neville anywhere near a cauldron is risky, and then to have Snape 
breathing down his neck...that's a combination for danger, that is. 
=P  But we all trust Snape to be a good teacher and not let anyone 
get SERIOUSLY injured.  Sure, he may let the Slytherins flick a few 
newt eyes at the Gryffindors, and he'll give any Gryffindor that 
dares throw a dragon liver detention faster than they can 
say "quidditch"... but he does keep the kids from killing each other, 
so that's good.  Now, if we can trust Sanpe and his biast self to 
conduct Potions with the Slytherins and Gryffindors and keep them 
from poisoning each other, why can't we trust Hagrid to be able to 
control a few "interestin' creatures"?

And, to continue going on about the "risky" teaching thing, basically 
any hands-on learning you're going to do can turn risky, and anytime 
anything goes wrong there's always a sign of possible danger.  But 
these are magical kids.  And aren't these the same kids that, 
whenever they're scared or hurt, can make things happen?  I don't see 
the hippogriffs as being a bad choice by Hagrid. The Flobberworms, on 
the other hand, weren't a good idea at all.  They were just so 
utterly boring(but then again, if you're going to say someone is a 
bad teacher because they teach their subject in the most boring 
manner, you can go and yell at Proffessor Binns *g*).  But Hagrid is 
learning, he does start doing his job in book 4 when he teaches about 
Nifflers and Unicorns.

Jenny:
>>Ah, but the situation with Hermione is when Hagrid *is* doing his 
job. 
It is great for him to be there as someone older and more experienced 
who can listen to Hermione (or Harry or Ron) and give advice. That is 
when Hagrid is really being a teacher, IMO. It is when he breaks down 
and cries to them that he loses all of his points with me.>>

Why, though? Why is it a bad thing for Hagrid to relate some of his 
problems to the open ears of his friends?  It's not like he's 
constantly waiting around outside the Gryffindor common room for 
Harry and Co. so he can load off some of his problems on his famous 
friends.  No, IIRC, the Trio are always the ones that seek Hagrid out 
in concern, and only when they do so does he allow them to know 
what's got him so worked up.  Hagrid does wear alot of his emotions 
on his sleeve, but he also doesn't seem to like to bother people with 
his problems.  And I can relate to that.  He's not going to seek out 
people to talk to about his problems, he figures they've got enough 
to deal with- Harry especially.  I htink Hagrid is a great friend to 
the Trio- he's there for them, as he is for Hermione, but they're 
also there for him.  Friendships are a two-way thing, you know.  The 
Trio might just be the ones that make Hagrid finally grow up.  
Infact, he does seem to be somewhat, doesn't he?

Caroline pointed out:
>>Hagrid's curriculum does get better after Rita Skeeter's article (a 
year and 
a half after he begins teaching). He teaches a class on Nifflers. 
(Maybe 
Professor Grubbly-Plank left him some lesson plans.) It's pretty 
good, 
possibly his best class ever. It looks like he's got some confidence. 
And 
IIRC, we don't see him drinking after the Yule Ball.>>

Hagrid might be growing up right along with the Trio.  Is it a little 
late? Yes, but I really can't bring myself to blame Hagrid for that.  
His education came to a dead halt at 13.  A 13 year old, with no 
family(his dad died in his 2nd year at Hogwarts, I believe), now an 
outcast because he's blamed for releasing/controlling a moster that 
killed a girl and attacked students...and then Dumbledore, taking 
pity, was able to get him to be kept on as Gamekeeper.  I wonder if 
there was a lull between that, though?  As has been pointed out, 
Hagrid didn't go straight from being kicked out of Hogwarts to being 
Gamekeeper.  No, and Dumbeldore wasn't even Headmaster when Hagrid 
got kicked out- so how would he have gotten Hagrid the job?  Was 
there a lull when Hagrid was left to fend for himself for awhile?  
This could be why he's so fond of the pubs.  I can see Hagrid taking 
up residence at one and trying to be a bus boy or something to try 
and make a living.  Hmm...

Jenny:
>>Would you accept a job offered to you if you knew you 
couldn't handle it? I wouldn't. To me, that is part of what being 
responsible is: accepting your limits. Hagrid did not do that, 
training or no training. The sad thing to me is that Hagrid actually 
has an *excellent* background in the care of magical creatures, but 
his bias towards the dangerous ones combined with his general 
insecurities prevent him from being the teacher he could be. I don't 
buy the "he didn't ask for it" excuse; there are plenty of things we 
are all asked to do in our lives and when we say yes, we must accept 
the responsibilities that come with our decisions. Either way, Hagrid 
is the one who ultimately failed at the position.>>

Did the thought that he couldn't "handle it" ever cross Hagrid's 
mind?  Nope, I don't think it did.  He's been around Hogwarts for a 
looong time.  He certainly seems to know the Forest pretty well, and 
there are tons of  "interestin creatures" in there.  And I don't 
doubt that Hagrid could handle the CoMC job, either.  His students, 
though?  Eh.  Draco obviously couldn't handle listening to 
instructions long enough to mount a hippogriff- which, IIRC, the 
other students seemed to be doing just fine.  I know there's a 
mention in the scene, after Harry has ridden Buckbeak and before 
Draco insults him, that students were tentatively approaching the 
creatures and doing just as instructed. Did any of them get attacked? 
Nope. Hagrid could handle the job, but some of his students 
couldn't.   

As for the Flobberworm thing...hmm, I got out PoA and just sat down 
and re-read some of it.  It hints that Hagrid had talked to the 
Governors.  

**"School gov'nors have bin told, o' course," said Hagrid 
miserably. "They reckon I started too big.  Shoulda left hippogriffs 
fer later...done flobberworms or summat...Jus' thought it'd make a 
good firs' lesson.... 'S all my fault...."** PoA, US Paperback 
edition, Pg 121.

That could be interpreted that the Governors suggested that Hagird do 
flobberworms, and that could be why he did them all year.  He didn't 
want to have to be brought before the Governors again- the same ones 
that had had Dumbledore removed last year on Malfoy's orders- The 
same Malfoy whose son is in Hagrid's class.

Jenny:
>>I'm sorry, but he is not supposed to be 
Harry's friend. I am there for my students and I've listened to many 
a sob story, have given advice and have laughed with my students many 
times. They even know a bit about my life - but I DO NOT cry to them 
or expect them to help me if I make a mistake. I don't tell them when 
I am having problems at home and I don't expect them to pick me up 
when I am down. In fact, they never know if I am dealing with 
somethig outside of school because I keep that to myself.  I don't 
care what position Hagrid has at Hogwarts; he should not EVER have 
Harry and Co. helping him out and sneaking around in the middle of 
the 
night when he messes up. Hagrid needs to learn how to take better 
care of himself.>>

Hagrid only talks to the Trio about his problems.  He doesn't go 
moping around the class trying to dump an emotional load on whatever 
student is willing.   He only talks to the Trio(after they have 
sought him out, mind you), because they are his friends. They were 
his friends before he became their teacher, and I don't see why that 
should change.  IMHO, Hagrid being the Trio's friend is NOT a bad 
thing.  And helping friends through problems and tough times is part 
of friendship- and I don't think he ever expects them to help.  They 
always seek out him, IIRC.  As for the Norbert incident...the only 
defense I can provide off the top of my head is that he never dumped 
Norbert in Harry's arms and just left it up to him to getting rid of 
it.  Nope, the Trio had to practically wrench Norbert away from him, 
and they only did so because they cared for the well-being of their 
friend Hagrid.

Jenny:
I also think he gave Rita Skeeter plenty of dirt, on 
himself as well as on Harry.

Where? Show me where.  I remember Hagrid telling the Trio that Rtia 
ONLY asked him about Harry, if Harry where a bad kid or ever tried to 
up Hagrid in class and such.  Hagrid told Rita that no, Harry was a 
great kid.  Which, of course, pissed Rita off.  And that did no harm 
except to Hagrid, by causing Rita to buzz about looking for some dirt 
on him. Infact, it might not even have happened that way.  Beetle!
Rita could have just ended up in the right place at the right time to 
hear Hagrid's little confession to Madame Maxime.

Jenny:
The scene in SS with the Dursleys is wonderful and 
the way he slammed Karkaroff against the tree in GoF is maybe how he 
should have allowed himself to react to Draco in PoA for being such a 
poor student.

Oh, come one.  If Hagrid had layed a finger on Draco, Hagrid-Haters 
everywhere would be outraged that a teacher would do so to a student- 
no matter how much Draco deserved it. No, I must say Karkaroff 
deserved it, but Hagrid was dealing with a full-fledged, Death-Eating 
wizard; slamming a child, one as panicky(I really can't believe 
Draco, who is supposed to be a cunning Slytherin, decides that he is 
dead when lolling around on the floor after Buckbeak clawed him) and 
spoiled as Draco around is not the right thing, nor a Hagrid thing to 
do.

Jenny:
He could have so easily turned the 
tables on Draco, claiming that Draco put the entire class at risk 
when 
he didn't listen to directions and provoked a hippogriff.
 
And the only one that would've listened would have been Dumbledore. 

Jenny:
Isn't there a scene when he runs off crying in front of the class? I 
believe it is in PoA when Hermione ends up slapping Draco.

*gets out PoA* Well, let's see...

Okay, the day of the Slap, the order of events are as follows:
The Trio has CoMC class.  Since the Black attack, they have to be 
escorted by teacher's wherever they go.  So Hagrid is walking the 
Gryffindors and Slytherins from his hut to the Castle.  As the way 
walk, Hagrid tells the Trio about Buckbeak's trial.  He finally just 
can't talk about poor "Beaky" anymore and walks off, face in his 
hankerchief, towards his cabin.  No, he didn't break down in front of 
the class, he went off to cry to himself and take care of Buckbeak 
after fullfilling his duty of walking the students safely to the 
castle(by the time he leaves, we're told Draco and Co. are already 
inside the Castle).

~Aldrea