Ambition in the Wizarding World

[porphyria_ash]

No: HPFGUIDX 38724

Great post #38707, Cindy! You've done a great job collecting evidence 
to suggest that JKR does seem to have suspicions about ambition that 
are perhaps more pronounced than that of the average reader. I agree 
that Ron, in particular, is not very ambitious and neither is Harry, 
as Susanne has suggested. 

You said of Harry:

<<
Harry seems to pull it together under pressure and coast the rest of 
the time. What is that, exactly? Should we call it Transient 
Ambition? Task-Oriented Ambition? Adolescent Ambition? ;-)
>>

Maybe Task-Oriented Ambition. I still wouldn't call him ambitious. 
When he *needs* to do something, he rises to the occasion. The 
dementors affected him more deeply than anyone else, so he made a 
point of getting Lupin to teach him how to deal with it. When 
*someone else* put his name in the Goblet, he did his best to perform 
admirably in the contest. (Although you have to admit he bought it on 
the 2nd task; Dobby was the one who saved him.)

But Harry doesn't crave fame (he hates it), he doesn't crave wealth 
(he's got some, and he's a little ashamed of it), he doesn't crave 
power. He doesn't crave honor unless the situation wrenches it out of 
him. But I also think of ambition as having a master plan, a goal of 
some sort. Harry doesn't. Harry wants to be a normal kid. He doesn't 
want to wind up in the crazy situations he does. Half the time his 
immediate ambition is to stay alive. The rest of the time he's trying 
to save the life of someone he cares about. The only thing I think he 
really is ambitious about is Quiddtich. He has natural talent, but he 
also practices hard at 5am in the cold and rain. He fantasizes about 
being the next Krum. If he lives out the series, maybe he will be. :-
) Is this an example of good, harmless ambition chez JKR?

Jo Serenadust tweaked your assertion regarding Real!Moody's 
ambitiousness, and you came up with more evidence: his thoroughness 
in defending against the Dark Arts and hunting down DEs.

OK, but I did want to add -- and I think that this still supports 
your major point --  that one of the things we do know about Moody is 
that he was authorized to use the unforgivable curses against the DEs 
but avoided it as best as he could. This puts him in the same 
category as Dumbledore: someone who is quite capable of using the 
Dark Arts but chooses to limit his own power for, evidently, moral 
reasons. And I think the text indicates this is something *good* 
about Moody. So I'd say that Moody is presented as "good" to us when 
we see him curbing his power and "worrisome," like in the Pensieve, 
when we see him snarling at Karkaroff. 

Some of your other examples:

<<
Or the twins, who mostly seem to be 
able to muster ambition when doing something against the rules 
(figuring out the Map, crossing the Age line).
>>

The twins are ambitious about their joke shop. And this is one of the 
reasons some readers worry about them. Their effort at raising money 
for the store does begin to border on blackmail (not that Bagman 
isn't being an absolute knave with them); and the idea of gambling 
for money is not seen as particularly honorable or wise in the first 
place (at least not by Molly). So there is the suggestion that they 
might go *too far* in their ambition. 

And then we have:

<<
We have Snape, who supposedly 
covets the DADA position, but many on this list don't believe the 
rumor. Is Snape ambitious? I have my own views based on certain 
views about why Snape became a DE, but I'm not sure we've really 
reached much of a consensus there.
>>

I've often wondered whether or not PresentDay!Snape is as ambitious 
as you'd expect from a Slytherin. It's hard to tell if there is some 
particular *position* he's after. I'm one of those who thinks he'd 
rather be Potions Master than DADA Professor. I think he's proud of 
that and proud of being Head of House. But beyond that, I'm not sure. 
He seems committed to being a supporter of the cause that Dumbledore 
leads. He gets flattered when Draco suggests he'd make a good 
Headmaster, but I don't see any evidence that he really wants the 
job. He can't bring himself to actually *say* something disloyal 
towards Dumbledore in reply. When he does defy Dumbledore it's not so 
much because he's trying to undermine D's authority in favor of his 
own advancement. It's more for other Snapish reasons; he's angry, he 
thinks he knows better and he's actually trying to help, etc. But he 
very nearly always defers to Dumbledore, even when he disagrees.

I guess your best bet would be to argue that he acts the most 
ambitious when it comes to the touchy subject (for him) of 
recognition. He seems to resent Harry for the fame he got without 
particularly deserving it. And he does *really really* like the idea 
of getting a Merlin Cross when it's offered to him. So thirsting 
after honor and, as the hat says, a desire to prove himself, this he 
does have. Whatever it is he does at the end of GoF supports this as 
well. He really wants someone (someone like Dumbledore) to believe in 
his value. But this is a good sort of ambition as well as bad; 
clearly D. does actually feel he needs someone like Snape for the 
cause, even if Snape occasionally causes problems for the same 
reasons. So perhaps for the present, he's got some slightly qualified 
ambition.

On the other hand, there is Teenage!Snape and that could well be a 
different matter. I believe you have suggested in the past that 
perhaps Snape did join the DE s because he was ambitious. And this 
certainly makes sense in a lot of ways -- isn't this what Slyths are 
characteristically tempted to do? And Snape seems firmly convinced of 
his own talents, and would probably appreciate an atmosphere in which 
they could be appreciated and rewarded. Poor Snape does appreciate a 
pat on the head. So if Voldemort had any smarts at all he would have 
capitalized on this.

But the whole point of Snape's character is redemption, isn't it? 
(OK, not the whole point, but a big, honking point.) So maybe, since 
JKR does seem ambivalent at best about the lure of ambition, maybe we 
can see some inkling of what Snape's redemption involved. Maybe 
curbing his ambition *somewhat,* contenting himself with striving for 
what he wants at 'some cost' instead of 'at any cost' was part of 
whatever maturation process he went through that led to his 
renouncing LV and all his evil ways. Maybe the reason Dumbledore 
trusts him so much is because he gave up on some extraordinarily 
powerful, high-ranking opportunity that LV offered him -- pace Cindy, 
who has in the past suggested the he left the DE s because LV didn't 
appreciate him at all. ;-)

Cindy concludes:

<<
But maybe this is just a common way to treat ambition in fiction 
dealing with a struggle between good and evil. I mean, Evil 
Overlords are almost ambitious by definition -- they want to rule 
the world. It's all or nothing for them -- they won't be happy just 
having a lot of influence or changing society at the margins. So 
perhaps writers (and JKR) have the Good Guys be less ambitious for 
contrast and conflict and to cast them as the underdog?
>>

Of course the good guys are always the ragtag band of misfits, and 
this is generic convention. But I think you've put your finger on the 
fact that ambition is a little more problematic than usual in the HP 
series. Characters always start to look more sinister when they show 
their ambitious streak. I'll be interested to see how it does play 
out in future books; i.e. will Percy/the twins/Ron/insert potentially 
ambitious character here/ be tempted to the Dark Side because their 
ambition is a weakness? Hopefully it won't be as all-or-nothing as 
that.

~~Porphyria, far too lazy to ever worry about the lure of ambition