Ambition in the Wizarding World (TBAY)

[cindysphynx]

No: HPFGUIDX 38771

Porphyria wrote:
 
> But Harry doesn't crave fame (he hates it), he doesn't crave 
>wealth (he's got some, and he's a little ashamed of it), he doesn't 
>crave power. He doesn't crave honor unless the situation wrenches 
>it out of him. <snip>  The only thing I think he 
> really is ambitious about is Quiddtich. 

Isn't this interesting?  The one thing Harry is ambitious about is 
Quiddich.  But what, exactly, does Harry crave when it comes to 
Quiddich?  It's not the potential to become wealthy playing 
Quiddich.  It's not the fame.  

No, it seems that Harry's Quiddich ambitions are motivated by a 
desire for adoration and attention.  In GoF, Harry dreams that he 
flies like Krum, and he dreams the roar of the crowd:  Harry saw 
himself in robes that had his name on the back, and imagined the 
sensation of hearing a hundred-thousand-strong crowd roar . . . "

Later, when Harry imagines himself sneaking his name into the 
Goblet, he appears plenty ambitious:  "he was standing on the 
grounds, his arms raised in triumph in front of the whole shcool, 
all of whom were applauding and screaming . . . Cho's face stood out 
particularly clearly in the blurred crowd, her face glowing with 
admiration."

So Harry is ambitious in this one limited way, I guess.  So maybe 
JKR is saying it is OK to be ambitious to impress strangers or an 
attractive girl, but not to seek power or wealth?  

Yuk.

Porphyria (on Moody):

>One of the things we do know about Moody is 
> that he was authorized to use the unforgivable curses against the 
DEs 
> but avoided it as best as he could. This puts him in the same 
> category as Dumbledore: someone who is quite capable of using the 
> Dark Arts but chooses to limit his own power for, evidently, moral 
> reasons. And I think the text indicates this is something *good* 
> about Moody. So I'd say that Moody is presented as "good" to us 
>when 
> we see him curbing his power and "worrisome," like in the 
>Pensieve, 
> when we see him snarling at Karkaroff. 

Well . . . you're preaching to the converted there.  I really do 
like Moody, snarling and all.  Still . . . I'd love for Moody to 
turn out to be more than the Bad Cop who is Good deep inside.  I 
think I'd much prefer Evil To The Core And Fooling Everyone Moody.  
I have a feeling that I'm not going to be allowed to vote on that 
issue.  ;-)

Porphyria:

> I've often wondered whether or not PresentDay!Snape is as 
>ambitious as you'd expect from a Slytherin. It's hard to tell if 
>there is some particular *position* he's after. <snip> I'm not 
>sure. He seems committed to being a supporter of the cause that 
>Dumbledore leads. 

See, this is where I have my doubts.  Snape is supposed to be an 
ambitious Slytherin.  Yet he is supposed to be perfectly happy to 
stroll around a dungeon telling kids when to add the rat spleen.  It 
just doesn't add up.

That's why I'm keeping my eye on Snape.  He might well be tolerating 
his less-than-lofty position at Hogwarts for other reasons.  Evil 
reasons.   Like he really *is* still a spy for Voldemort.

Why, by the way, are so few people willing to entertain the 
possibility that Snape's conversion wasn't true?  I mean, maybe the 
reason he was able to return to Hogwarts at the end of GoF was 
because Voldemort allowed him to.  Maybe Snape didn't prevent the 
Dementor from sucking out Crouch Jr.'s soul because Crouch Jr. was 
going to finger Snape as a DE who walked free.

Oh, I am keeping my eye on Snape, I certainly am.

Porphyria (on Snape):

> I guess your best bet would be to argue that he acts the most 
> ambitious when it comes to the touchy subject (for him) of 
> recognition. 

Oh yes.  Forgive me.  We're supposed to be talking about ambition.  
I lost my head for a minute there.  ;-)

> On the other hand, there is Teenage!Snape and that could well be a 
> different matter. I believe you have suggested in the past that 
> perhaps Snape did join the DE s because he was ambitious. And this 
> certainly makes sense in a lot of ways -- isn't this what Slyths 
>are characteristically tempted to do? 

Oh goodness.  What's this?  A potential convert to Prince of Lies?

Well, well.  It's been a while since anyone signed on to that 
theory, but enrollment is still open.  It's *never* too late to join 
Prince of Lies.  

This is such a pleasant surprise, Porphyria!  I . . . I . . . wasn't 
expecting you at all.  Um, let me see.  I'm all out of brandy, the 
beer is warm and the champagne is flat, but . . . I seem to have a 
packet of Kool-Aid and a bit of water . . . I hope you like 
artificial Cherry flavoring!

Porphyria:

>And Snape seems firmly convinced of 
> his own talents, and would probably appreciate an atmosphere in 
>which 
> they could be appreciated and rewarded. Poor Snape does appreciate 
>a 
> pat on the head. So if Voldemort had any smarts at all he would 
>have 
> capitalized on this.

Yes, yes.  This is it.  Exactly, Porphyria!  Because of Snape's 
festering ambitions, Snape was just clay in Voldemort's Evil hands.  
Such a waste, don't you think?

Porphyria:

> But the whole point of Snape's character is redemption, isn't it? 
> (OK, not the whole point, but a big, honking point.) So maybe, 
since 
> JKR does seem ambivalent at best about the lure of ambition, maybe 
we 
> can see some inkling of what Snape's redemption involved. 

Yes, but what about the idea of *failed* redemption?  Lots of 
characters have had second chances (Hagrid, Snape, Lupin, Sirius, 
Avery), but I don't think we've seen any character *squander* a 
second chance.  Maybe Snape will be the character who reverts back 
to his Evil Old Ways.  

And having a character botch one of Dumbledore's second chances 
would be so *Bangy*!  I mean, the closest we've come so far is 
Crouch Jr., who was given a second chance by his father.  And Crouch 
Jr. generate a huge Bang in GoF, right?  

Having Snape dutifully spy for Dumbledore for the next three books 
is kinda dull.  I'm waiting for Snape, in a moment of blind 
ambition, to make his move, to throw it all away, to betray 
Dumbledore when Dumbledore least expects it . . . 

Although I'm willing to be flexible about whether the betrayal has 
anything to do with catwalks.  ;-)

Porphyria:

>Maybe the reason Dumbledore 
> trusts him so much is because he gave up on some extraordinarily 
> powerful, high-ranking opportunity that LV offered him -- pace 
>Cindy, who has in the past suggested the he left the DE s because 
>LV didn't appreciate him at all. ;-)

Oh, and won't Dumbledore be slack-jawed when it turns out that Snape 
didn't turn down Voldemort's opportunity.  When it turns out that 
Snape used Dumbledore as a stepping stone up the DE Corporate 
Ladder.  I'm thinking that will be a serious Non-Twinkle moment for 
Albus.  ;-)

Cindy