Are The Schoolbooks Canon? (WAS The Night The Jobberknoll Screamed)

[cindysphynx]

No: HPFGUIDX 38922

Abigail wrote:

> Are the HP Schoolbooks canon?

Hmmm.  I was always pretty sure that they are canon.  There is no 
question that they were written by JKR, after all, which is the 
definition of canon.  

I'm not the final authority, though.  We'll have to get a ruling 
from Lexicon Steve.

Steve?  

I wonder about one thing, though.  Has anyone ever found any way in 
which the schoolbooks are consistent with the first four books?

Abigail:

>I'm just not sure they are fair game 
> for theorizing with.  Canon is like building blocks - if you want 
>to use the "Harry fired the gun" block on the third level of your 
>tower there had better be a  
> "Harry has a gun" block somewhere below it, or the whole thing 
>just comes crashing down.  JKR is very good at laying out her 
>blocks way ahead of time

Yes, that's true.  JKR is good at foreshadowing -- when she wants 
to.  The most important potion in the series is undoubtedly 
Voldemort's rebirthing potion, however, which wasn't foreshadowed at 
all, IIRC.  Moody's trunk made its first appearance at the end of 
GoF, I think.  The Time Turner came right out of nowhere.  So if JKR 
wanted Jobberknolls (or anything else in Fantastic Beasts) to be 
significant, she could easily use the schoolbooks as the 
foundation.  

Similarly, if a concept from the schoolbooks would make sense as a 
solution to a problem in a future book, I would expect JKR to 
account for it.  If she didn't, I would consider it a mistake or a 
FLINT.

Abigail:

> It *isn't* a fair assumption on JKR's part that all her readers 
>have read the schoolbooks, as they are not part of the standard 
>narrative, and given her penchant for laying out her foundation so 
>early, it just seems out of character for her to introduce some 
>Jabberknoll-based potion and have one of 
> the characters say that they read about it in FB.  

Well, she wouldn't have to do it in quite that way.  Hagrid could 
just show up with a Jobberknoll that fits the description in FB.  
Unless it is to be a major plot twist, there's no reason JKR 
wouldn't just repeat the description of Jobbernoll for the benefit 
of the readers who are new to the books -- just the way she slipped 
in a mention of Animagi in GoF.

Abigail:

>I think the schoolbooks should 
> be in their own category of canon - JKR (and we) can't go against 
>it, but basing a theory strictly on information in the schoolbooks 
>should be a yellow flag violation - at least wave the thing around 
>for a while.  

Ouch!  This is a tough crowd, isn't it?  ;-)

Abigail:

>I don't like basing theories on JKR's interview answers, because 
> what if she changes her mind (or, as in the infamous Weasly cousin 
>case, discovers a gaping plot hole and has to change the story?)

Yes, I usually don't consider JKR's interview answers to be as 
reliable as the books or schoolbooks, because she is much more 
likely to make an error when speaking extemporaneously.  (Didn't she 
say inconsistent things about James' Quiddich position?)  

But I'm holding her to the same high standard with the schoolbooks 
as I am with the first 4 books -- inconsistencies among them are 
FLINTs in my eyes.

Abigail (about Moody):

> Yes, but he was Stunned *and* Imperius-ed!  We know that stunning 
>eventually wears off (Snape shakes his off after receiving a triple 
>and "over-enthusiastic" dose in PoA) and that a strong-minded, 
>properly trained person (both of which Moody obviously is) can 
>shake off an Imperius - but both of them together? 

I don't think Snape was Stunned in PoA.  I think he got a triple 
blast of Expelliarmus and was knocked out.  I believe the only way 
to wake up from being Stunned is with Ennervate.  That is why Harry 
and Cedric weren't worried the Big Spider would wake up while they 
argued about who should take the Cup.  Compare this to how Harry was 
worried that the Skrewt (which received a blast of Impedimenta) 
would revive on its own and come after him. 

As for whether Moody can shake off the Imperius Curse, well . . . we 
have three examples of wizards shaking off Imperius:  Harry, Crouch 
Sr., and Crouch Jr.  Harry took one hour to learn this.  Crouch Sr. 
took around 8 months.  Crouch Jr. took many years.  So it is 
reasonable to think that Moody wasn't going to be able to shake off 
Imperius very quickly either.

Abigail:

>I think it's entirely possible that Moody shook off the Imperius 
> several times and couldn't do a thing about his situation.  

I'm not so sure about this.  The purpose of using Imperius on Moody 
was to interview him and extract information from him.  I had the 
impression he was left Stunned most of the time, and he was awakened 
and placed under Imperius when Crouch Jr. had a question.  So I 
don't think there's any logical reason to believe Moody ever shook 
off the Imperius Curse while imprisoned in his trunk.  But that's 
just a guess.

Cindy