The Heir/WW versus MW

[bluesqueak]

No: HPFGUIDX 46025



Pippin about the `Dissing the Slytherins Leaving Feast' scene, 
Chapter 17 PS/SS: 
> Um, are you saying that if some other House had been leading, 
> Dumbledore would have curbed his taste for the dramatic? 
> Because otherwise, I don't see how Dumbledore was being 
> exclusionist. To be inclusive, Dumbledore has to treat the 
> Slytherins as if they were just as capable of bearing the 
> reversals of fortune as anyone else.

Actually, yes, I do think Dumbledore would have curbed his taste for 
the dramatic if another house had been in the lead. Impossible to 
prove, of course – though he curbs himself quite nicely when judging 
in the Triwizard Tournament.

The events the Trio and Neville are awarded points for actually took 
place about a week before the leaving feast. Other examples of 
points being given or, in the case of Snape, extensively taken away 
show that points are awarded as close as possible to the event. 
Dumbledore could have awarded the points in advance of the Leaving 
Feast – then made much the same speech, giving the reasons behind 
the points' award.

 In fact, in CoS Dumbledore *does* give another massive (and 
deserved) points award to Ron and Harry for rescuing Ginny. He does 
it in his office, *as close as possible to the event*. There's a 
special feast to celebrate – no speeches are mentioned. 

So why did he make that dramatic reversal of fortune in PS/SS? He 
could have employed the same tactics as in CoS – award Harry such a 
large number of points that Slytherin would have had no chance of 
catching up in the week of term remaining. THAT would have been in 
keeping with school practice, and it would have been fair (after 
all, Harry was very nearly killed defending the Stone – and the 
entire school knew that).

One possibility is that he wanted to make sure that Neville got the 
winning points – had he awarded a huge number of points to Harry, 
Neville's points would have only been important to Neville (however, 
since they would have been the first points he'd won, they would 
have been important to Neville anyway).

Another possibility 

:: Pip pauses to hear the churning of a DISHWASHER in the distance::

is that he *wanted* to give the Slytherins a sudden, unexpected 
reversal of fortune. Because he wanted them to talk about it ( and 
talk about Harry Potter fighting Quirrel? )To go home to their 
parents complaining bitterly about Dumbledore snatching victory from 
out of their grasp.  Because the Slytherins were *not* treated 
fairly there, and kids are very quick to complain about unfairness.
 
Yup, as an example to the Slytherins that they are treated exactly 
the same way as any other house, waiting a week until the final, 
public Leaving Feast to award points that will lose them the cup is 
crap. As a declaration of war, it's pretty good.

The Voldemort wars restart when Voldemort tries to steal the 
Philosopher's Stone.  Dumbledore is announcing (symbolically) that 
Voldemort has lost this battle. Harry Potter and the Gryffindors won 
it.

And it is only eight weeks later that Lucius Malfoy responds by 
planting Tom Riddle's Diary in Ginny Weasley's books. Which is, of 
course, a complete coincidence. Honest.

*********************************************************************


Melody, and the contention that the Wizarding World *should* stay 
secret from the Muggle World.

:: Pip pauses briefly to consider the possible effect of announcing 
that she doesn't hold with secrecy. Then decides she couldn't 
possibly expect to get away with it.::
 
Yes, there are some things that should be kept secret. In fact "Some 
secrets are necessary" is probably emblazoned on the stones above 
the Safe House front door.[1] 

Melody quotes:
>> Matthew 7:6
"Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs.
If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and
tear you to pieces."
>>
Melody writes:
> Which suggests to me, that which is precious guard from those who
> would, since not having such a gift, would abuse or fear the gift.

> For hundreds of years, Muggles have feared magic. Even in today's
> world of modern advances in thought and reason, we still have those
> that even fear the idea written in just plain fiction. {mumbled 
> with a half-glazed look of anguish] Might take root and corrupt all
> generations...forever damning out nations...polluting our
> streams...destroying perfectly good brooms....

Pip replies:
So, is the WW simply keeping their pearls from the muggle swine?

There is another New Testament passage to quote back, which is Mark 
7 verses 26 to 29. A non-Jewish woman came to Jesus, asking him to 
heal her daughter. His reply was:

>>
"Let us first feed the children [i.e. Jewish people]. It isn't right 
to take the children's food and throw it to the dogs."
"Sir," the woman answered "even the dogs under the table eat the 
children's leftovers!"
And Jesus answered "Because of that answer, go back home, where you 
will find your daughter cured."
>>

[It is a huge relief to me that God apparently loves a smartarse ;-
) ]

So, if the muggles are the dogs, are they getting the leftovers? Is 
there any sign of it? Or are the wizards keeping all their magic for 
themselves?

 Is there any use of magic on muggles in the books so far that is 
not purely concerned with Wizards either protecting the secret of 
their existence, or attacking muggles in some way? Dumbledore 
remarks that Frank Bryce's disappearance is considered unimportant 
by the Ministry, because he is a Muggle. Do we see any example of 
wizards *helping* muggles?

Spiderman, if I remember the comic books correctly, keeps his 
identity a secret, but uses his powers for good, trying to protect 
people. And IIRC, Spiderman is regarded with fear and hatred by the 
people he is trying to protect.  Gandalf protects the Hobbits from 
the big bad world at the beginning of LOTR, but by the end of it 
acknowledges that they no longer need him. They are not children – 
they have grown up.

The WW, on the other hand, seems to want to regard the muggles as 
children. Children that will never grow up. They, on the other hand 
regard themselves as the superior adults, despite the fact that 
other muggle groups who have been regarded with fear, hatred and 
prejudice have fought back against the people who hold such views, 
*not* run away. They have demanded their equal place in the world. 
They have carried on writing the books that others have sought to 
ban. 

Melody writes:
> Sure the Roberts were a little taken advantage of by the naughty  
> DE's.
> No real harm done though. Since they do not remember, the Roberts'
> little lives will continue in ignorant bliss. But you scream, "That
> is not fair. They should know. They have a right to know."

> Yes, yes. Maybe they should. What good would it have done if the
> Roberts had known they were surrounded by wizards and witches who 
> had powers they never would...and not because they are too noble 
> to use them either. ;) Even if the Roberts had know about magic, 
> what couldthey have done? What defenses they have are useless. 
> They would still be puppets in the air. Just now they would 
> *understand* what isgoing on.

Yes, they would have understood what was going on. And after they 
got rescued, they would have been able to ask whether the Ministry 
was making investigations, or had arrested anyone.  They would have 
been able to ask whether people were being punished for an 
unprovoked attack. They would be able to insist that they should 
live in a country where people with special powers have to obey the 
same laws as the people without.

And they would know about this coming war that they might get killed 
in.

 We are all surrounded by people all the time who have the power to 
embarrass, hurt or kill us – anyone with a sharp tongue, anyone 
driving a car, anyone who owns a gun. We *do* rely on people's self 
control at all times. We do get killed in wars that have nothing to 
do with us, personally. As for some people having powers I will 
never have – that happens all the time, as well. I'll never run a 
four minute mile, for example. Or be a chess Grand Master.

And as Pippin has pointed out; Magic is not the most important thing 
in life. Love, and its power, is far more potent. In that most 
important area, Muggle and Wizard are equal.

Melody:
> So the Wizard World is at a passing. Let the whole world know they
> exist and deal with the whole world of built up prejudice, fear, 
> and scientific curiosity, or stay hidden protecting their 
> existence living in relative peace and semi-symbiotic harmony.

Are they living in relative peace? Grindlewald, Voldemort – if 
they've withdrawn from the Muggle World for self-protection, they 
seem to be as good as any Muggle at destroying themselves. Harmony? 
Slytherin versus Gryffindor, Durmstrang versus Hogwarts, a 
recognition that they would have died out if they'd not married 
Muggles while simultaneously despising the Muggles and mudbloods 
who've saved them. 

> If Harry is to join thetwo worlds, I see a big task in front of 
> him beyond anything of his background, education, or vision.

It's a huge task, which would take many years. But probably not 
beyond Harry [by the time he reaches eighteen, anyway]. After all, 
we are *already* asking him to save the world
 [grin]. 

Pip!Squeak

[1]I'm sure that's what it does say above the Safe House door, but 
it's been encrypted in a code I can't crack.