Voices from the past (Re: [HPforGrownups] Snape and the Potters)

[Carol Bainbridge]

No: HPFGUIDX 47175

Indigo wrote:

>I don't know if I'm spotting Skeeters or not, but after reading
>#47054 and this, I have some questions:
>
>1)  If Lucius and Snape were with the Big V, why did they not assist
>him when his green light dark magic curse backfired and took his
>body?  Surely they didn't think he was entirely annihilated if they
>were standing there to see him reduced to a bodiless specter.

Good question.  How much do we know about what happened to Voldemort when 
the curse backfired?  LV says at the end of PS/SS: "see what I have 
become?  ... Mere shadow and vapor...I have form only when I can share 
another's body."  At the moment of impact, so to speak, how much would 
Vapormort know about how to get about in his new form?  Would he 
instinctively have known to somehow enter someone's "heart and mind"?  Or 
would he have to take off and "regroup"?  No one had ever survived this 
curse before.  I would guess then that no one had had it backfire and been 
turned to vapor and shadow.  Maybe Vapormort thought he needed to get out 
of there in case something even worse happened -- like he completely 
disappeared from the face of the earth.  Anyway, I do think it is within 
the realm of possibilities for Snape and Lucius not to know that Vapormort 
was, in fact, Vapormort and not Voldemort.  Of course, I would also wonder 
why Voldemort doesn't bring this up to Lucius.  Then again, LV at the 
graveyard scene in GoF does say to Lucius, "You never tried to find me, 
Lucius." Perhaps he feels that Lucius above all the others should have 
known that LV had not been completely destroyed.  And maybe LV took off, 
but before doing so, told Lucius and Snape (somehow) to come to him 
later.  Lucius does reply to LV that had there been any sign of his 
whereabouts, he would have been at his side immediately.  It seems to me to 
indicate that maybe Lucius knew that LV was still around in vapor/shadow 
form, but just didn't know where.

>2)  So far, if memory serves, Harry's dreams have been prophetic, and
>his memories have mostly been dredged up while he's awake.  Except
>for the green light dream in PS/SS.   The Turban telling him
>Slytherin was, IMO, a warning that Vapormort was in said Turban.

I agree that this dream could be part prophetic, but I still have to wonder 
why the mention of Malfoy transforming into Snape, who laughs a 
high-pitched laugh.  I never thought twice about it when I read it the 
first or even the second time, but now I just can't believe that JKR didn't 
have something up her sleeve with that one.

>3)  How did Lucius and Severus and Voldemort arrive if they did not
>leave the same way after Vapormort got poofted?  Wouldn't Sirius, who
>turned up on the motorbike,  have seen them departing since he only
>found the rubble, the Potters, and little Harry as or just before
>Hagrid showed up?

Well, Hagrid was there before Serius.  This still fits into my theory -- I 
think.   Lucius and Snape would already be gone by the time Serius shows 
how and Hagrid would have been in on the "cover up" with Snape so it 
wouldn't be a surprise to Hagrid.  By this time everything has been worked 
out.  Hagrid has talked to DD, who tells him he is going to arrange things 
so Harry will be safe at the Dursleys and will meet him there later.  Snape 
might have found a way to inform DD about the killings and vaporization of 
Voldemort and then stayed to look after Harry until arrangements were 
made.  When all is in order, Hagrid goes off to get Harry and take him to 
the Dursley's.  At some point after DD leaves, Hagrid could have run into 
McGonagall.  This is where Hagrid tells her that Dumbledore will be at the 
Dursley's.  He doesn't tell her anymore than that.  So she goes off there 
and meanwhile Snape is watching Harry and Hagrid is waiting for word from 
DD to know when it's time to pick up Harry.  Snape would also have been 
functioning to charm the place to keep the Muggles away until the time is 
right.  When it is, he takes off, removing the charm before he 
goes.  Hagrid arrives before the Muggles start swarming around the place 
and right when Serius arrives.   This is moving beyond where I was going 
originally, but it has made me think more about how the theory would work 
with the rest of the details we know about that night.

>4) We know from priori incantatem that Lily and James were together
>and were killed one right after the other [even if there's some
>question as to the order. They died within minutes or seconds of each
>other].

I don't remember this.  I know the James was supposed to have died first, 
but I don't remember -- and can't find at the moment -- any mention of 
their dying within minutes or seconds of each other.

>If Snape was still undercover as a DE, he could not have
>been the person saying, "Run, Lily, I'll try to hold him off!"  could
>he, without blowing his cover to Lucius Malfoy.

I agree.  It's why I originally didn't say that Snape was the one who said 
this.  As far as my theory goes, the voice Harry hears IS that of his 
father.  I propose that Snape arrived without much of a plan in an attempt 
to save the Potters.  He may have found out at the last minute, gone with 
Lucius and Voldemort, hoping that he would be able to thwart the attack 
somehow.  If he doesn't do anything overt, he won't give himself 
away.  Also, if Snape knew that Voldemort was intent on killing the 
Potters, he may have known there wasn't much he could do, but would try 
anyway.

>If he were alone,
>though, I could see it, because he owed James Potter his life, and
>had to act in accord with that.  But if he'd acted to save Lily, why
>did Voldemort not punish him for thwarting "his master", continuing
>on to and through Lily for Harry?

But I think he would have actually gone to save the whole family, not just 
Lilly.  I'm not sure of all the exact details, but I am convinced that 
Snape was present.  I wouldn't be at all surprised if Lucius was there 
too.  He really hates Muggles and mudbloods and clearly didn't care for the 
Potters.  I'm sure he would have loved a fun evening out killing the 
Potters.  Also, if he was Voldemort's right-hand man, as some people here 
have suggested, it would make sense for Lucius to be there for this 
particular killing.  There is something about the Potters.

>That's all the questions I have for the moment. Thanks for making me
>think!

You're welcome!  Thanks for the skeeters!  I had to think through some 
details I hadn't considered before!  I think the theory still works.