Voices from the past (Re: [HPforGrownups] Snape and the Potters)

[Indigo]

No: HPFGUIDX 47178

--- In HPforGrownups at y..., Carol Bainbridge <kaityf at j...> wrote:
> Indigo wrote:
> >4) We know from priori incantatem that Lily and James were together
> >and were killed one right after the other [even if there's some
> >question as to the order. They died within minutes or seconds of 
each
> >other].
> 
> I don't remember this.  I know the James was supposed to have died 
first, 
> but I don't remember -- and can't find at the moment -- any mention 
of 
> their dying within minutes or seconds of each other.

You've either completely answered my other questions or I'm still 
skulling them over, but this one had answers jumping into my head 
straightaway!

PoA:  Dumbledore told Lily and James to go into hiding.  The Fidelius 
Charm was cast.  Sirius was chosen as secret keeper and at the last 
minute, Sirius told them to switch to Peter because Sirius thought 
himself too obvious.   

The remark made about the Charm was that Voldemort couldn't find them 
even if he had his nose pressed right up against their sitting room 
window.

Small but important distinction of phrasing: Their. Not Hers.

Sirius' exact words: "you sold Lily and James to Voldemort."  PoA p 
374.  Another small but important distinction of phrasing.  Their 
names were together, without 'then' in the middle as 'you sold Lily 
and then you sold James to Voldemort.'  This could be of course 
simply chalked up to the fact that Black was murderously angry, 
starved, and deranged.   But the distinct impression I get from all 
of this is that Lily and James were together in the house.

These two tidbits of information  impliy, to me, strongly, that James 
and Lily were together. In the house in Godric's Hollow.  

Further [and I know how much I'm painting a bullseye on my head by 
saying this] Logic dictates that it had to have been seconds or 
minutes between James' death and Lily's because if it had been longer 
than that, Lily could've gathered Harry up and apparated out, or 
grabbed a broomstick and flown to safety because James would've 
bought sufficient time for an escape with his death. This is taking 
into consideration that Hogwarts level disapparation spells hadn't 
been put on the house -- but why would they need them, if they had 
Fidelius? Without the Secret Keeper speaking,  Voldemort could have 
apparated right on top of their wedding bed and never realized he'd 
found them.

 
> >If Snape was still undercover as a DE, he could not have
> >been the person saying, "Run, Lily, I'll try to hold him off!"  
could
> >he, without blowing his cover to Lucius Malfoy.
> 
> I agree.  It's why I originally didn't say that Snape was the one 
> who said  this.  As far as my theory goes, the voice Harry hears IS 
>that of his  father.  I propose that Snape arrived without much of a 
> plan in an attempt  to save the Potters.  He may have found out at 
> the last minute, gone with  Lucius and Voldemort, hoping that he 
> would be able to thwart the attack  somehow.  If he doesn't do 
> anything overt, he won't give himself  away.  Also, if Snape knew 
> that Voldemort was intent on killing the  Potters, he may have 
> known there wasn't much he could do, but would try  anyway.
> 
> >If he were alone,
> >though, I could see it, because he owed James Potter his life, and
> >had to act in accord with that.  But if he'd acted to save Lily, 
why
> >did Voldemort not punish him for thwarting "his master", continuing
> >on to and through Lily for Harry?
> 
> But I think he would have actually gone to save the whole family, 
not just 
> Lilly.  I'm not sure of all the exact details, but I am convinced 
that 
> Snape was present.  I wouldn't be at all surprised if Lucius was 
there 
> too.  He really hates Muggles and mudbloods and clearly didn't care 
for the 
> Potters.  I'm sure he would have loved a fun evening out killing 
the 
> Potters.  Also, if he was Voldemort's right-hand man, as some 
people here 
> have suggested, it would make sense for Lucius to be there for this 
> particular killing.  There is something about the Potters.

Sense, to a degree.

Voldemort is a megalomaniac; and being one such he might've gone 
entirely alone because he figured no one could stand up to him once 
he was ready to take them down.  

But that's not really a good enough reason for why Lucius might have 
been there when Voldemort attacked.


--Indigo