Dementors Helping the DEs and the Two Franks (WAS: Dementors' Kiss)

[mmgardin]

No: HPFGUIDX 47352

I (Marcia) wrote:

> In modification then, of Neville's poor memory due to memory
> charms, I think the memory that was blocked was of his parents 
> receiving the Dementors' Kiss.

Phyllis ("erisedstraeh2002")wrote:

>An interesting theory, but I tend to take Dumbledore's statement 
that 
>the Longbottoms were tortured into insanity at face value. I can't 
>think of a reason why Dumbledore would tell Harry they were tortured 
>when they were actually Kissed, since Harry knows all about the Kiss 
>by this point. 

My response:
Dumbledore doesn't actually say outright that the Longbottoms were 
tortured into insanity.  In one paragraph he does in fact state that 
the Longbottoms were tortured and in another paragraph he tells Harry 
that they are not dead – they are insane.  If he wanted to say that 
the torture session was to blame for their current mental condition, 
he could have easily done so, but to me, he doesn't outright draw a 
causal link between the two events.  To me, this leaves just enough 
room for JKR to gloss over all the gory details concerning the 
Longbottoms until she sees fit to reveal the whole story.  I too feel 
that Dumbledore's words should be taken at face value for the most 
part .In GOF The Beginning when addressing the students at the 
Leaving Feast, Dumbledore says, "It is my belief, however, that the 
truth is generally preferable to lies,
" While I really don't want to 
start a philosophical discussion about truth and Dumbledore's 
disclosure motivations, I don't think that Dumbledore is compromising 
his integrity with regard to truth by not telling Harry the whole 
truth about the Longbottoms.  Yes, he knows that Harry is aware of 
the Dementors' Kiss, but Neville may not even be aware of the whole 
truth.  Dumbledore told Harry as much as Harry needed to know without 
telling him more information than was available to Neville.  Btw, I 
do believe that the Longbottoms were tortured with the Cruciatus 
curse, I just also believe that it was the Kiss that led to their 
insanity.  I think that the reason the Kiss wasn't mentioned during 
the trial scenes in The Pensieve, was probably due to lack of 
evidence.  Prior Incantato would have implicated the perpetrator's 
wands as those used to administer Cruciatus curse.  I haven't found 
anything in canon to suggest that the Dementors' Kiss is traceable 
though (but the thought and mental picture of the Dementors having to 
fill out Ministry forms in triplicate every time they administer a 
Kiss is highly amusing to me).    

Marcia again:
> Speculating, I'm guessing that the Death Eaters use the Dementors 
> as a way to quiet their victims. 

Phyllis again:

>While the Ministry of Magic has its faults, I don't 
>think they would put creatures that were previously affiliated with 
>the DEs in charge of guarding the DEs.

My response:
This puts me in a bit of a bad situation – I am not really a big 
supporter of the Fudge is evil camp, believing instead that his 
purpose is to illustrate what happens when good men do nothing.  
However, I'm cautiously coming to realize that Fudge must either be 
evil or incredibly stupid.
GOF The Pensieve p.511
`Ah I was forgetting 
 you don't like the Dementors, do you, Albus?' 
said Moody, with a sardonic smile.
`No,' said Dumbledore calmly, `I'm afraid I don't.  I have long felt 
the Ministry is wrong to ally itself with such creatures.'
GOF The Death Eaters p.564
`The Lestranges should stand here,' said Voldemort quietly. 
<snip 
some of V's speech> 
The Dementors will join us
they are our natural 
allies 
GOF The Parting of the Ways p.614
`The rest of us sleep less soundly in our beds, Cornelius, knowing 
that you have put Lord Voldemort's most dangerous supporters in the 
care of creatures who will join him the instant he asks them!' said 
Dumbledore.

What these references tell me, is that both Dumbledore and Voldemort 
consider the Dementors to be on Voldemort's side and perhaps more 
importantly that, Fudge was responsible for placing them at Azkaban.  
Dumbledore's use of the word "you" in that last reference is 
grammatically ambiguous.  He could either mean "you" as in second 
person plural (The Ministry) or "you" as in second person singular 
(Fudge himself).  By mentioning Cornelius' name in the first part of 
the sentence though, I believe "you" means Cornelius himself.  Also, 
if Fudge is a DE, what better morsel of good DE deed could he offer 
Voldemort than to be able to say `Ok I know I didn't come looking for 
you, but hey – I was looking out for the faithful DEs but placing the 
Dementors at Azkaban.'  I also find it disturbing that Fudge was able 
to very quickly summon a dementor to Hogwarts "for protection" when 
interviewing ([sic] as no interview actually took place between Fudge 
and Crouch Jr.).  So I guess that's it – I am stating for the record 
that The Ministry and Fudge did in fact know the risks associated 
with putting the Dementors in charge of Azkaban and they went ahead 
and did it anyway.  

Marcia