accidental magic

[Indigo]

No: HPFGUIDX 47477

--- In HPforGrownups at y..., "clicketykeys" <clicketykeys at y...> wrote:

> > 
> > Alina:
> > > 
> > > Jazmyn, your point was that magic doesn't kick in until kids 
are 11 
> > years
> > > old. My point is it does. It may be induced by stress, yes, and 
> > something in
> > > me seriously doubts that muggles can fly brooms. I think it 
takes 
> > magic for
> > > a brook to actually start floating when you say "Up!" and for a 
> > muggle it
> > > wouldn't do anything. That's arguable, I know.
> > > 
> > > As for the child with the wand... No, mom shouldn't have been 
> > frantic as if
> > > the kid was holding a gun. A gun can kill if the person holding 
it 
> > is strong
> > > enough to squeeze the trigger. A wand can't do serious magic 
unless 
> > the
> > > person holding it is a trained adult. 
> > 
> > 
> > Indigo:
> > 
> > I'm not so sure about that, Alina. If the kid could intentionally 
> > blow up slugs at the World Cup with Daddy's wand, what's to say 
that 
> > he couldn't do worse if he really set his will to it?  
> > 
> 
> Clicketykeys: 
> 
> Because he hasn't been trained in the use of such spells? Magic is 
> more than just intent; it's also training.
> 

Indigo: 
Training isn't intrinsically necessary for someone to do damage with 
a device.  Jaz's loaded gun metaphor for one thing, and for another --
 your average kid under 16 years of age  behind the wheel of a car?  

If a kid has the will with a wand, the potential to do big damage 
exists, with or without the knowledge of how to do it as a specific 
spell involving magic words.

> Indigo:
> 
> > Remember, kids don't have the same scruples and rules-related 
> > knowledge and restrictions of their abilities as older 
kids/adults 
> > do.  
> > 
> > A wand in the hand of a particularly gifted or particularly 
strong-
> > willed kid could potentially be very dangerous.
> > 
> > Harry got Expecto Patronum as a third year, and Remus told him it 
> > might be far too advanced for a student his age, because there 
were 
> > full-fledged wizards who still hadn't mastered Expecto Patronum. 
> > 
> > Harry doesn't study as hard as Hermione does, but he mastered a 
spell 
> > that a teacher said was likely going to be too hard for him to 
> > master.  And this is with time and history against him; he had 
grown 
> > up magic-free for his 11 years, as opposed to some of his all-
wizard 
> > friends, like Ron and Neville.  
> 
> Clicketykeys:
> 
> I would argue that Harry did /not/ master the Patronus. The only 
> reason he was able to conjure one successfully at the end of the 
book 
> was because of the unique circumstances created by the Time-Turner.
 In 
> addition to that, he was being personally coached for months.

Indigo:

Yes, but even Harry's feeblest first attempts, Remus said, were 
better than some full-fledged wizards could do.  And even due to the 
Time-Turner circumstances, Harry -still- mastered the spell, because 
that still was a full-fledged Patronus.  

> 
> Indigo:
> > 
> > This, to me, implies that kid wizards have a great deal of 
untapped 
> > potential that they only have to focus really hard to realize 
> > magically.
> 
> Clicketykeys:
> 
> I think it's rather like programming a VCR: yes, a child can do it, 
> but SOMEONE has to teach them how.

Indigo:

Or the kid is like me and I imagine many other HP4GU types ;) -- 
enterprising enough [or bored/mischievous enough] to either read the 
instructions, or experiment on his own until he gets it right through 
trial and error. 

> > 
> > Alina:
> > Remember Crouch!Moody told the class
> > > that if they all got their wands out and started 
screaming "Avadar 
> > Kedavra"
> > > he wouldn't even get a nosebleed. 
> > 
> > Indigo:
> > I'm not so sure about this.  
> > 
> > Hermione was doing more advanced magic than the first years her 
first 
> > year, because of her desire to be good at everything.
> > 
> > See the Patronus mention above.  Harry can do advanced magic far 
> > beyond NEWT level in his third year.  If that's possible for him, 
> > it's possible for other wizards [though Harry is, in fairness, a 
> > special case, due to the Voldemort-touch having given him some of 
the 
> > big V's powers].
> > 
> > [Just as Lockhart was useless at most magic but had a facility 
for 
> > Memory charms, by contrast]. 
> 
> Clicketykeys:
> 
> I dunno. I think this merely shows that some wizards are more 
talented 
> and/or more driven then others.
> > 

>>Indigo:
> > Fake!Moody could've just been saying that as a precaution so that 
> > none of the kids would/could try.   I could just see the subject 
> > coming up and  Malfoy sneering at Harry and yelling "Avada 
Kedavra!" -
> > - even if it does require a full-trained wizard to be a kill-
spell, 
> > Draco's ill-will plus the exponentially growing malice Draco 
holds 
> > for Harry might well have given the spell *some* potency, if not 
> > lethal-level.
> > 
> > This would've resulted in Ron yelling "Avada Kedavra" back at 
Draco, 
> > and Crabbe and Goyle yelling it back at Ron, and it would've 
become 
> > an Unforgivable Curses brawl for any kid in DADA class who wasn't 
too 
> > afraid [Neville] or who wasn't disrespectful of the rules 
> > [Hermione].   
> > 
> > Practially and rationally speaking: I think Fake!Moody thought it 
> > better to convince the fourth years that even attempting Avada 
> > Kedavra would be a waste of time and effort.  
> 
> Clicketykeys:
> 
> Oh, I'm not so sure about that. I kind of think it was a "watch and 
> learn" lesson for any potential Death Eaters out there -- not 
enough 
> instruction for any of them to master the spell, but enough that if 
> they were paying attention, they might be able to benefit from 
> practicing and concentrating.

Indigo:

Excellent point I had not taken into consideration.  
> 
> > --Indigo
> > [nursing a post-Feast Wars headache]
> 
> *patpat* 
> 
> - C.K.
> clicketykeys

*coo*  
Such a nice Clicketykeys.

--Indigo