[HPforGrownups] Re: Snape and Quirrellmort/MAGIC DISHWASHER

[Rita]

No: HPFGUIDX 45225



I wrote:
 >>One final though, I like very much MAGIC DISHWASHER but I feel it's
 >>way too complex for children and , even though the books are not
 >>exclusively aimed at them still, JKR knows that a big part of her 
 >>readers are quite young 

And Grey Wolf ( a great theorist, IMO) answered:
>First things first: that argument you've used there is metathinking. 

Is it? I tried to follow all of that metathinking discussion but couldn't
really understand what you were talking about. Not to be meant as a form of
criticism, I didn't *really* understand!

>Which I hate, especially when used for or against MAGIC DISHWASHER, as 
>I think I've made abundantly clear by now.

This is almost the only thing I managed to make out of those posts ;)

[cut]
 >the books are *not* written for children. JKR wrote them aiming at 
>herself, at something that would please *her*. The fact that 100 
>million people seem to have the same tastes, and that most of them are 
>children, means nothing. 

Well, if I understood it correctly, she *planned* the series to please
herself but  she's actually writing it *now* knowing that millions of kids
are reading and enjoying them (which doesn't mean that  now she's writing
for them but simply that she's aware of who her readers are, and when these
readers are children one tends to feel some responsibility towards them).
Before all the hype begun she had the general lines quite clear but as she
works on each book she enriches it with details and new ideas, reconsidering
what she had planned to make it more effective, adding or removing a subplot
if she thinks it appropriate ( I'm thinking about the 'weasleys' cousin'
whose appearance she put off to another volume). Is all this metathinking? I
have a feeling it is, maybe I'm finally understanding!


>And if you think MAGIC DISHWASHER is 
>inapropiate for children, you should read again the Graveyard Gathering 
>scene and the death of Cedric "Spare" Diggory. *That's* scary.


I don't need to reread the Graveyard scene, I firmly believe from the first
time that I read it that is too much for kids, even though I never carried
out my plan to 'prove' it by means of interviewing young readers. 
Anyway ' inappropriate' is a big word, I said that MD is too 'complex' for
kids; inappropriate is, IMO, the grim view of the world that it implicates.
But as you say, one can read on many levels, and I believe that JKR is
writing her books 'like onions' ( to use an expression used by the likes of
R. Kipling and A. Garner in reference to their children's books) and there
may be a way to 'use' the MD without having children realize what it entails
 As you put it:

>If MAGIC DISHWASHER 
>proves to be true (objective number 2, as Pip said), it won't be 
>spelled out as such: it will have been working in the background, and 
>giving the books realism. 

To my other point:
>> And wouldn't it be horrible to discover that our hero has been 'used'
>> and raised with almost the sole purpose of giving his blood to the 
>> 'right cause'? If i were Harry I would feel cheated, and after 10
>> years deprived of love to find finally people who cares for me and
>> then discover that they did because they 'needed' me would be 
>> devastating. Everything I had come to believe in and everyone I
>> trusted and loved would seem false and hollow, just empty lies. Isn't
>> it something terrible to give children?


Grey Wolf answered:
[cut]
> However, your question is valid. And can be answered logically from 
>past events. I don't think that Harry's role in MAGIC DISHWASHER is 
>over after giving his blood for the potion. 

I didn't mean to say that, I used 'give his blood for the cause' partly
metaphorically to mean "to be the mean ( or one of)of LV 's defeat"

[ cut: how Dumbl. 'trained' Harry to deal with LV in PS; all too true, I
absolutely agree with this]


>Besides, I, like Pip, don't understand what's so wrong with being the 
>"pawn". It's the pawn that, in the end, becomes the hero, *even in chess*. 


Well, nothing so wrong if you believe in Destiny, because that way we are
all pawns in a game bigger than us that we do not control. But this is
another story.  let's get back to the point: according to MAGIC DISHWASHER
Harry has been put through one nightmare after the other ( thankfully with a
little preparation) by people he loves and trust, without being "explained"
the necessity of it. Isn't it a violence they're doing him? Don't you think
he would have agreed to make some sacrifices if he was asked to (with
particular reference to the blood taking)?
 He believes he *finds* himself involved in these events ( despite  his
tendency to meddle in things that don't really concern him, see PS) what
will happen when he realizes he has been guided into them? wouldn't it be
normal to feel that he was deprived of his childood and adolescence and of
any meaning to his life? Wouldn't it seem like he was Imperio'ed, led to do
what others wished him to? wouldn't it be as Unforgivable as that curse?

You may say that there is still place for his free will to act, that at some
point he may make the choice everyone doesn't want him to make ( turn to the
Dark Side, take one step bak and say "this is none of my business",
whatever) but this ,IMO, doesn't changed the fact that he's been manipulated
 and I can't even stand the thought of it!!



well, I don't know if I managed to explain my thoughts clearly because I
fell very passionate about this, which means that for the sake of my health
I could  not enter into a discussion of these "moral problems" again. 
Anyway, I got the impression that this is not really what is central to Grey
Wolf's take on the books so, at least, I won't argue again with you given
the different perpective we use, it wouldn't really 'help' no one (to use
your "motto")
R.