House assumptions

[Becky]

No: HPFGUIDX 45274

Kris said:

> Actually I think it much more likely that the marauders are the 
ones 
whose 
> houses will be a surprise. I'm still convinced that all four were 
from 
a 
> different house, which is why their friendship was so unique.  I 
mean, 
Ron and 
> Harry are always together and nobody seems the least bit impressed 
by 
that.  

I'm curious by what you mean here. I haven't read anything in canon 
that would seem to imply that MWPP's friendship was "unique." We only 
have a description that "You'd have thought Black and Potter were 
brothers!" - PoA, The Marauder's Map

That Pettigrew was "... that fat little boy who was always tagging 
around after them at Hogwarts," who "Hero-worshipped Black and 
Potter."

No mention of Lupin was made except by Lupin himself.

Incidently, this is one of the problems I have with the "Four Houses" 
theory. Surely, *some* kind of notice would have been made.



Kara said:

> What an interesting theory, and one that I hope plays out. As I was
> reading your post, that's exactly where I thought each one would go.
> It would be very interesting to find out that Sirius was in
> Slytherin... it would give a new perspective on that house. 
Afterall,
> not every Slytherin is an evil bastard... that would be way too
> stereotypical, and why would you let them even attend Hogwarts? I
> could see Peter as a Hufflepuff, -much- more than I could imagine 
him
> as a Gryffindor. 

Another problem I have. I *can't* see Peter as a Hufflepuff. Loyal, 
diligent?

I don't see Peter. 

And I can't see him as being a loyal follower of LV who wormed his 
way in either. It mentions in canon that he'd been passing 
information to for a year before James and Lily were killed (PoA, The 
Servant of Lord Voldemort), which is a long time for a spy, but not 
long enough that I would think he really *was* being a "loyal 
Hufflepuff." Not to mention he isn't loyal to LV either.

Remember, *moral* bravery is not the same thing as *bravery.* I know 
*I* wouldn't be able to cut off a finger or a hand.

Themetically, it would be interesting. But, JKR would have to do a 
*lot* of explaining for all the pre-Gryffindor evidence, including

Lupin: "Let's drink to a Gryffindor victory against Ravenclaw!" (PoA -
 The Patronus)
I find it unlikely that Lupin would turn out to *be* a Ravenclaw 
after this. You can argue that he was just being nice to Harry, but 
there are plent of ways to wish luck on the game without an obvious 
reference to Gryffindor winning.

Sirius: "You'd have thought Black and Potter were brothers!" (- PoA, 
The Marauder's Map). We haven't seen any really close inter-House 
relationships. If Sirius turned out to be a Slytherin, I think some 
explaining would be needed about why it hasn't been mentioned yet 
(with a whole lot of people trying to think of an explanation for 
Sirius' betrayal). An "I forgot to tell you" wouldn't cut it. 

Peter: Already addressed Hufflepuff, his actions speak for 
themselves. And while he hasn't shown loyalty, he *has* shown 
bravery. People often show their bravery when they have to defend 
their most important possession. The fact that Pettigrew has chosen 
his life can't be proof that he's not *brave.*

James: We know JKR answered in an interview a question about what 
position James played on the *Gryffindor* Quidditch team. While only 
saying James was Chaser, there *is* an implication that James is a 
Gryffindor.

However, I can't see them being in different Houses. Which means 
either Gryffindor, Ravenclaw, Hufflepuff, or Slytherin.

Gryffindor - most obvious choice. Lily was in it, JKR has said by 
omission that James was in it. Comes out best match for them in 
comparison to the other Houses.

Ravenclaw: Again the whole Lupin scenario, not to mention you have to 
wonder what Peter's doing there. 

Hufflepuff: While an extremely amusing notion (to me) at first. I 
still can't see Peter, and Sirius seems too ... wild for it.

Slytherin: Come *on.* I can't imagine any way that they could have 
kept Werewolf!Remus a secret from Snape until 5th/6th year while 
sharing a *dormitory* with him. I don't see Snape as stupid, and we 
*know* he was a Slytherin. (Unless Sirius is lying, or being really 
clumsy in his speech by classifying Snape as "*part* of a gang of 
Slytherins" (emphasis mine, GoF, Padfoot Returns).) It makes far more 
sense to me that Snape was a more distant observer.




Richelle said:


> Well, first of all Ing and Sherry have done fine jobs of defending 
my 
theory
> of the four Marauders equaling the four houses.  Anyway, the point 
I'm
> making is it IS unusal for students to have close friends in other 
> houses.
> Which is what makes it so remarkable for the Marauders to have done 
it.
> Both Flitwick and McGonagall remarked on the closeness of James and 
> Sirius.
> If they were in the same house, what would be the big deal?  Ron 
and 
Harry
> are always together.  Malfoy, Crabbe & Goyle are together, etc.  
But 
then
> there's this group of four who have seemingly nothing in common (as 
far 
as
> their houses) but become friends.

But that's why I'm arguing against it. No big deal *is* made out of 
MWPP. The only reason they emphasized the closeness seems to be 
because of the supposed betrayal.


> Also, I can't find canon for the Marauder's Map showing house common
> rooms/dormitories.  But it does say that the map showed ALL of 
Hogwarts, and
> common rooms, etc. are part of Hogwarts.  This would also be how 
Sirius 
knew
> where the Gryffindor common room was.  The way I see it all four 
Marauders
> knew about all four common rooms.  Partially from making the map, 
partially
> from having copies (I think each one had a copy, myself) to look at.

Possibly, but I still think there's too much evidence one way, and 
too little the other for me to swallow.


--- In HPforGrownups at y..., Susan Snow <snowwy54 at y...>
wrote:
> If I am not mistaken when Lupin had Harry in his
> office he said something about the next quidditch
> match.  Although he was not supposed to take sides.
> This to me indicated that Lupin is a former Gryffindor.

> Not necessarily.  Lupin just drank to a Gryffindor victory.  As Ing 
said,
> he's taking these anti dementor lessons for Quidditch anyway.  
What's 
Lupin
> going to do, say he wants him to lose anyway?  Nah, I think Lupin 
is 
another
> one with a soft spot for "Little Harry Potter, the boy who lived."  
He 
would
> want Harry to win over his own house.  What a great guy. :)

> Richelle

See farther up. He could have *easily* wished him luck without 
deliberately going for a Gryffindor over Ravenclaw victory.


I can see the desire to have a "good guy" in Slytherin (and not 
an "apparently good guy" like Snape), but the we miss out on 
Gryffindor!Peter going evil.


Ethanol said:


> Richelle, the more I think about it, the more I like your idea. JKR 
*has*
> said that James was a Gryffindor but the others are all open.

> About support from canon, how about this idea: Snape disliked (as 
fas 
as we
> know) James from saving him and blames Sirius for endangering his 
life. 
Now,
> if both James and Sirius had been Gryffindors, when and why would 
Sirius
> talk to Snape? After all, most students socialize mainly with other 
students
> from their house and especially the Slytherins tend to be elitist. 
So 
why
> would Snape chat with somebody from another house (I guess we can 
safely
> assume that Snape was a Slytherin)? Why with a Gryffindor when the 
rivalry
> between Slytherin and Gryffindor seem to be a long standing 
tradition? 
It
> would simply not make sense for Snape to trust Sirius' advice - 
unless
> Sirius were a fellow Slytherin and Snape had absolutely no reason to
> mistrust a house brother.


<g> That's partly my defence of the infamous Prank, that Sirius 
wasn't expecting Snape to actually *go.* But that's for another time. 
As for the socializing - think Harry and Draco. Except Sirius strikes 
me as someone who'd take the more active role (the "Bully You Know" 
was how I think it was referred to, although they were talking about 
the twins). It doesn't require me to take much of a leap that Sirius 
might talk to Snape.


> After all, between their cunning and ambition, friendship and 
loyalty 
are
> *very* important for a Slytherin - that much we know from the 
Sorting 
Hat.
> They stick together and support those that belong to their circle. 
If 
Sirius
> broke that code by first befriending James and the the others and 
then 
by
> tricking Snape, that would explains Snapes hatred toward him. Snape 
must
> have felt betrayed, causing him to plan to bring Sirius to a 
dementor
> without a prior trial.

Excuse me? Where? Are you talking about the "where you'll make your 
real friends" line in PS/SS. I always assumed that it just 
meant "you'd meet people with the same goals as you."

Whatever it means, I don't see much loyalty among the Slytherins of 
today. They aren't Hufflepuffs, and I don't see them admiring 
excessive loyalty. I don't see any reason to assume they were 
especially loyal then either.


> So if Sirius were a Slytherin, that would explain why people, 
especially his
> *friend* Lupin, would believe him to be the murder and traitor. 
Would 
people
> assume that so easily about a courageous Gryffindor, strenuous and
> straightforward Ravenclaw or loyal Hufflepuff (even loyal to the 
death 
as
> with Peter, as far as the people know)? Between the Slytherin's 
traditional
> elitist behaviour and the fact that many of them supported LV 
people 
would
> be quite suspicious of a Slytherin and condemn him without a fair 
trial. It
> would even explain why Lupin was so ready to believe in Sirius' 
guilt -
> something that always baffled me. According to McGonagall, James, 
Remus 
and
> Sirius were close friends. So why would Remus blame Sirius without 
giving
> Sirius the chance to defend himself or proof that he had been 
framed 
(could
> you picture that happening to Ron and Hermione for example?) ? 
Possibly 
the
> fact that Sirius was a Slytherin was always a sore point for the 
Marauders,
> something that could be ignored and forgotten as long as they were 
all 
kids
> but that became quite important when they grew older and when LV 
began 
his
> terror reign? Remus would have believed that his friend was a "good
> Slytherin" until he was proven wrong (as he believed). James was the
> stabilizing factor in their friendship and when he died, the bond 
between
> Remus and Sirius broke.

Because the evidence was so overwhelming? Because their friendship 
has always been strained since the Prank? (Again, part of a theory 
about why Sirius suspected Remus.) I still find the absolute 
exclusion of saying Sirius was a Slytherin *very* suspicious if he 
was one. Particularly, when the party speaking *aren't* Sirius' ex-
friends (see PoA, The Marauder's Map).


> Much has been said that the Marauders seem to be older "mirror" 
images 
of
> our present friends: Harry of course resembles his courageous 
father,
> Hermione learned Lupin, Ron the temperamental Sirius and Neville 
the 
equally
> untalented Peter. When you set James (Gryffindor), Remus 
(Ravenclaw), 
Sirius
> (Slytherin) and Peter (Hufflepuff) then you have a representative 
of 
every
> house. Our present friends are *not* in different houses, but some 
show
> distinct talents for another house: Harry (Slytherin because of his 
need to
> proof himself and his Parseltongue ability), Hermione (Ravenclaw 
because of
> her love for learning) and Neville (Hufflepuff because that is the 
house
> where the weaker student usually end up). So they *do* feature the 
ability
> of the four houses, too. Coincidence? Or did the Sorting Hat decide 
that he
> should put these four together to prevent an earlier mistake that 
ended 
in
> tragedy?

<g> I've never been able to understand the Remus/Hermione parallel 
myself. I suppose I can imagine him being studious, but can you 
imagine him standing on his chair in his first day of Potions, trying 
to answer a question from a teacher with a nasty reputation?

Anyway, I don't agree with the Generational Parallel myself (though I 
*still* say that Harry/Remus strikes me as a *much* better match than 
Hermione/Remus).

Becky