[HPforGrownups] Re: House assumptions

[Barb P]

No: HPFGUIDX 45276


Kris said:

Actually I think it much more likely that the marauders are the ones whose houses will be a surprise. I'm still convinced that all four were from a different house, which is why their friendship was so unique.  I mean, Ron and Harry are always together and nobody seems the least bit impressed by that.  
 

 

Becky <squireandknight at yahoo.com> wrote:

I'm curious by what you mean here. I haven't read anything in canon that would seem to imply that MWPP's friendship was "unique." We only have a description that "You'd have thought Black and Potter were brothers!" - PoA, The Marauder's Map [snip]
Incidently, this is one of the problems I have with the "Four Houses" theory. Surely, *some* kind of notice would have been made.

Me:
Thank you, Becky!   I am still baffled by the four houses theory.  As much as people say they would like it to be true, and that it would be "neat" if it were true, and feel they can ascribe qualities of the four different houses to the four Marauders (the same can be said of the Trio), I still do not hear anyone offering solid canon evidence for this.  James we know, thank goodness, thanks to JKR, so that's not even open to debate.  The others, I believe, are also all in Gryffindor, but not because I simply "want" them to be.  Truthfully, I'd be much happier about Pettigrew if he WERE in some other house.  However, I just don't see that being the case.  Going Marauder by Marauder (except for the spoken-for James):
 
SIRIUS
1. When Hagrid brings Harry to Dumbledore (PS, p 16), this exchange takes place:
 
'Hagrid,' said Dumbledore, sounding relieved.  'At last.  And where did you get that motorbike?'
 
'Borrowed it, Professor Dumbledore sir,' said the giant, climbing carefully off the motorbike as he spoke.  'Young Sirius Black lent it me.'
 
In this passage, Hagrid seems to be referring to Sirius as a friend.  Hagrid is known for making friends of dangerous creatures, but NOT Slytherins.  We know what he thinks of them (probably because of Tom Riddle getting him expelled).  This doesn't necessarily argue for Sirius being a Gryffindor, but it certainly seems to argue AGAINST his being a Slytherin.
 
2. The first mention we have ot Slytherin is when Harry meets Malfoy in the robe shop (Harry is reminded of Dudley--never a good sign).  Malfoy asks a rather stupid question--whether Harry knows what house he'll be in--then admits that no one knows until they get there.  However, he then goes on to say that he KNOWS he'll be in Slytherin, as all of his family have been (also expressing his belief in blood being rather important).  It's after this that Harry asks Hagrid about Slytherin and Hufflepuff, and that's when Hagrid says, 'There's not a single witch or wizard who went bad who wasn't in Slytherin.'  (PS, pp. 61-62)  
 
In context, Harry had just been gloomily predicting that he'd be in Hufflepuff.  I sincerely doubt that Hagrid was correct about all bad magical folk coming from Slytherin.  Are we to believe that Barty Crouch had a son in Slytherin?  Wouldn't that have hurt his career?  (He reacted badly enough to his son being arrested because he was near where the Longbottoms had been attacked; he would have had to withstand having a Slytherin son for SEVEN YEARS.)  Also, Barty Jr.'s extreme cleverness and loyalty to Voldemort make him a more likely Ravenclaw or Hufflepuff.  (I lean more toward Ravenclaw.)
 
Hagrid also would be unlikely to say to Harry, 'There's only one wizard who went bad who wasn't in Slytherin, and he's the one responsible for your parents' murders.'  Harry's just recently learned of the true nature of his parents' deaths.  Hagrid has a low opinion of Slytherins.  He's unlikely to qualify his statement at this time and unduly distress Harry.  Just because Hagrid says something doesn't make it so.  Hermione said there were only seven Animagi in the last 100 years, but she didn't know about the illegal ones.  I doubt that Hagrid knows about EVERY dark wizard who's ever gone to Hogwarts and what house they were in.  (The Ministry could have had it much easier during Voldemort's first reign of terror if all they had to do was look up former Slytherins and keep an eye on them.)  Hagrid made a blanket statement that shows his prejudices as much as Malfoy's statements show his.  Hagrid just happens to be more likable.  It still doesn't mean that he knows what he's talking about.
 
3. Peeves identifies the Fat Lady's attacker as Sirius Black (PoA, p. 121).  As a general rule, Hogwarts students only know where their own common rooms are.  This, in canon, argues strongly for Sirius Black being a Gryffindor.
 
4. Professor McGonagall speaks of 'Black and Potter' as 'inseparable' and as 'brothers.'  If Sirius were in a house other than Gryffindor, you'd think she'd have commented on how remarkable this was (as you noted, Becky!).  The assumption at Hogwarts is that friends are in the same house.  I believe that is why it is never said explicitly, since the Marauders' friendship (I believe) follows this rule and is NOT exceptional.
 
LUPIN
 
1. When Lupin wishes Harry good luck before the Quidditch match, it DOES strongly imply (and in canon) that he is a Gryffindor.  And it is not strictly true that the teachers are not permitted to show bias, as the heads of house seem to be expected to.  When he's speaking about this, it seems that the desire is for teachers who are NOT heads of houses to put aside their old house loyalties and be more even-handed about what team they're cheering on now that they're teachers.  The implication here is that Gryffindor is indeed his former house.  There would be no other reason for him to make the statement.
 
2. When Lupin says that the others became his friends, he doesn't make any remarks such as, 'in spite of being from different houses.'  He just says he found 'three great friends.'  The implication is that he found his friends the way most Hogwarts students do--by being sorted into the same house.  His description of their sneaking out using the Invisibility Cloak makes it most likely that they're dormmates.  If any of them lived with other people, they would have been noticed going missing on the nights of the full moon. The way he describes them figuring out that he was a werewolf also implies that they live together.  It would have been much more difficult if they didn't, and if Lupin were in, say, Ravenclaw, the other Ravenclaws, not being stupid, would have figured something out, and a Ravenclaw, I feel, would also be unlikely to keep the information to himself or herself but consider Lupin to be a danger to everyone.
 
PETER
 
1. Peter is plenty brave, not particularly loyal, not particularly bright, and if he were 'ambitious' you'd think he'd aspire to BE a great dark wizard, not serve one.  I already mentioned some of his bravery in an earlier post (becoming an Animagus, risking being killed by a werewolf if he screwed it up, etc.).  He was sorted at the age of eleven, as someone else pointed out.  It's possible that if people had to go through sorting at later times in life, it would turn out differently, but we have no reason to think he couldn't have been sorted into Gryffindor in first year.  It could even be that he was in fact being very brave to become the Secret Keeper, and that someone close to him was threatened (his mother perhaps) and he gave up the Potters to save her, feeling that he was between a rock and a hard place.   We just don't know enough.  I strongly suspect we will find out more about how Peter came to betray the Potters that will make his actions more understandable, even if not forgivable, necessarily.
 
2. He is described in canon as tagging around after the other Marauders.  This would be very unlikely if he weren't in the same house (Gryffindor).  After all, if he was an annoying sort of tag-along all they'd have to do to shake him is go into Gryffindor Tower.  Problem solved.  But I believe he lived with them, and that's why he was included, because of the accident of the four of them being thrown together by their sorting.  It makes the most sense and requires the least amount of dissembling.
 
So there you have my three canon points along with subsidiary arguments about why the Marauders are all Gryffindors.  The four houses theory would be interesting if it just weren't so difficult to fit into the existing story.  The configuration that works best with canon is not having the four of them--or even one of them--in different houses.
 
--Barb
 
 
 
 


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