[HPforGrownups] Re: House assumptions

[Richelle Votaw]

No: HPFGUIDX 45282

Becky writes:

> I'm curious by what you mean here. I haven't read anything in canon
> that would seem to imply that MWPP's friendship was "unique." We only
> have a description that "You'd have thought Black and Potter were
> brothers!" - PoA, The Marauder's Map

And it was said that you never saw one without the other.  Big deal if they
were in the same house.  You rarely see Harry without Ron.  Nobody seems the
least bit impressed by that.  If they were in different houses, though, it
would be a big deal.  Something worth commenting on some 18 years later.

> Incidently, this is one of the problems I have with the "Four Houses"
> theory. Surely, *some* kind of notice would have been made.

I find it more interesting that not one time has either Sirius Black or
Remus Lupin made mention of what house any of the four were in.  The only
person who's blatantly been put in a house is Snape (he was *part* of a gang
of Slytherins).  It's my personal opinion that the subject has been
intentionally avoided by JKR to wait for the "big moment" to reveal it.

> Another problem I have. I *can't* see Peter as a Hufflepuff. Loyal,
> diligent?
> And I can't see him as being a loyal follower of LV who wormed his
> way in either. It mentions in canon that he'd been passing
> information to for a year before James and Lily were killed (PoA, The
> Servant of Lord Voldemort), which is a long time for a spy, but not
> long enough that I would think he really *was* being a "loyal
> Hufflepuff." Not to mention he isn't loyal to LV either.

That's the point.  Sirius *thought* he would be the loyal one, because he
was a Hufflepuff and Hufflepuffs are supposed to be loyal.  But to who, hmm?
He has, of recent times, been loyal to Voldemort.  One could say it was
fear, I suppose, but it takes a lot to make a person lliterally cut off
their own arm.  And he did return to him of his own free will.  A rat could
easily have hidden away again.

> Lupin: "Let's drink to a Gryffindor victory against Ravenclaw!" (PoA -
>  The Patronus)
> I find it unlikely that Lupin would turn out to *be* a Ravenclaw
> after this. You can argue that he was just being nice to Harry, but
> there are plent of ways to wish luck on the game without an obvious
> reference to Gryffindor winning.

Consider this.  Lupin has been spending a *lot* of his limited free time
training Harry to defend himself against the dementors.  Harry's entire
purpose was to defend himself if the dementors came to another Quidditch
match. After all that, what's Lupin supposed to say?  "Have a good time,
Harry, hope you lose."  Not likely.  Second, he was good friends with James
Potter.  If James was on the Gryffindor Quidditch team and Remus was a
Ravenclaw, I don't think it's impossible that Remus could've been a bit
pleased when James won.

> Sirius: "You'd have thought Black and Potter were brothers!" (- PoA,
> The Marauder's Map). We haven't seen any really close inter-House
> relationships. If Sirius turned out to be a Slytherin, I think some
> explaining would be needed about why it hasn't been mentioned yet
> (with a whole lot of people trying to think of an explanation for
> Sirius' betrayal). An "I forgot to tell you" wouldn't cut it.

If Sirius was a Slytherin it would also explain why Snape hated him so much
as well.  Your housemates are supposed to be close to you, not try to get
you killed.  And when would Sirius have been talking to Snape away from
James to slip him that little bit of info about the whomping willow?

> Peter: Already addressed Hufflepuff, his actions speak for
> themselves. And while he hasn't shown loyalty, he *has* shown
> bravery. People often show their bravery when they have to defend
> their most important possession. The fact that Pettigrew has chosen
> his life can't be proof that he's not *brave.*

Cedric Diggory, a known Hufflepuff, was described by Dumbledore as "a boy
who was good and kind and brave."  You can be brave and be a Hufflepuff.
Bravery is not reserved for Gryffindors only.

> James: We know JKR answered in an interview a question about what
> position James played on the *Gryffindor* Quidditch team. While only
> saying James was Chaser, there *is* an implication that James is a
> Gryffindor.

Right.  She has never 100% confirmed, nor denied, that James was in
Gryffindor.  Though it would come as a nasty shock to Harry if he wasn't.

> Gryffindor - most obvious choice. Lily was in it, JKR has said by
> omission that James was in it. Comes out best match for them in
> comparison to the other Houses.

Well, not entirely.  If indeed James *wasn't* in Gryffindor, JKR is not
going to give it away in an interview.  It would be a big surprise to
everyone (particularly Harry), so I don't consider that confirmation just
because she didn't say, no wait, he wasn't on the Gryffindor team, it was
Ravenclaw (or whatever).

> But that's why I'm arguing against it. No big deal *is* made out of
> MWPP. The only reason they emphasized the closeness seems to be
> because of the supposed betrayal.

I'l reiterate the above mentioned.  The fact that they are spoken of as
never being seen apart approximately *eighteen* years later is in and of
itself a big deal.

Barb writes:

> In this passage, Hagrid seems to be referring to Sirius as a friend.
Hagrid is known for making friends of dangerous creatures, but NOT
Slytherins.  We know what he thinks of them (probably because of Tom Riddle
getting him expelled).  This doesn't necessarily argue for Sirius being a
Gryffindor, but it certainly seems to argue AGAINST his being a Slytherin.

Not necessarily.  If Hagrid liked James Potter and James Potter liked Sirius
Black, it's easy enough to convince Hagrid to like Sirius Black. Since this
was before Black was
made into the villan.

> 3. Peeves identifies the Fat Lady's attacker as Sirius Black (PoA, p.
121).  As a general rule, Hogwarts students only know where their own common
rooms are.  This, in canon, argues strongly for Sirius Black being a
Gryffindor.

Err, excuse me?  As a general rule students haven't personally helped make
the a Marauder's Map either!!!  I have utterly no idea why anyone can use
that excuse (that Sirius wouldn't have known where the Gryffindor common
room was if he weren't in Gryffindor).  He helped make the Marauder's Map
for Pete's sake!!!  A map that showed ALL of Hogwarts.  With that much
sneaking around, he'd have had to be a complete idiot *not* to know where
the entrance to the Gryffindor common room was.

> 4. Professor McGonagall speaks of 'Black and Potter' as 'inseparable' and
as 'brothers.'  If Sirius were in a house other than Gryffindor, you'd think
she'd have commented on how remarkable this was (as you noted, Becky!).  The
assumption at Hogwarts is that friends are in the same house.  I believe
that is why it is never said explicitly, since the Marauders' friendship (I
believe) follows this rule and is NOT exceptional.

For the third time, the fact that she remarked on their insperableness at
all WAS remarkable!!!  Once again, no one finds it unique that Harry and Ron
are inseparable.  Or Malfoy, Crabbe, and Goyle.  They're *supposed* to be
inseparable because they're in the same house.

> 2. When Lupin says that the others became his friends, he doesn't make any
remarks such as, 'in spite of being from different houses.'  He just says he
found 'three great friends.'

As I said above, if the Marauder's *do* turn out to be from different
houses, JKR is *not* going to let it slip until she's ready.  Lupin has no
control over what he does or doesn't say. It's JKR. :)

Okay, enough of that.

Richelle

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"May it be a light to you in dark places, when all other lights go out."
---- Lady Galadriel, The Fellowship of the Ring
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