Hogwarts Student Population

[lucky_kari]

No: HPFGUIDX 45548

--- In HPforGrownups at y..., GulPlum <hpfgu at p...> wrote:
> Certainly the mix of pupils' backgrounds, financial circumstances 
and race 
> (both in terms of ethnicity and magical/Muggle parentage) would 
militate 
> against any impression that Hogwarts itself is selective in any way 
(beyond 
> selecting kids with basic magical potential).

Yes, it would, wouldn't it? I'm sure that's the reason why most people 
don't read Hogwarts as classist. JKR obviously does not want it to be 
classist, any more than she wants it to be sexist, racist, or 
discriminatory to people with different magical backgrounds. 

However, the text can sometimes present something else than JKR's 
political opinions. Some people have argued for the existance of 
race problems in the books. I don't see it. Others have summoned the 
spectre of sexism. To a certain extent, I do see that, though it's not 
as big as some people seem to see it, imho. Others have pointed out 
that discrimination against non-magic people does seem to be present 
amongst the good guys. Here, it's difficult to sort out what is 
purposeful and what is accidental. What does JKR think about 
McGonagall's remark about Muggles? Yes, there is an issue here, I 
think.

But all this pales in comparison to issues of class. Here I'm sure JKR 
believes one thing and the text sets out quite another. 

Class is a touchy subject. I joked in a TBAY post the other day: ""I'm 
telling you, Cindy, the moment you go there, you get people screaming 
and howling, and throwing fits and... terrible things, Cindy, terrible 
things."

I'm quite aware of the fact that Class is a huge issue in Britain, 
unlike here in Canada. In fact, if HP had been written by a Canadian, 
I would have shrugged it off. We Canadians aren't generally the best 
attuned to Class connotations. But JKR should know what she's doing. 
And what she's doing - from what I do know about the whole Class issue 
- is not so innocent. 
 
> People have put forward (including just now) that Stan Shunpike's 
broad 
> Cockney and his (apparently) menial job are an indicator that he 
didn't 
> attend Hogwarts.
> 
> For all we know, he and Ernie might well own and have developed the 
Knight 
> Bus themselves and run it as their own business, apart from driving 
it and 
> looking after the passengers. Why shouldn't they *choose* to drive 
and 
> conduct the bus? On top of not having to pay staff, perhaps they 
actually 
> enjoy that part of the job?

Would that explain JKR's connection of Stan with the fellow who 
supposedly washes dishes at the Leaky Cauldron in GoF? Maybe that 
fellow's friend was lying about him, putting him down in front of the 
Veela, but he doesn't offer any objections, does he? And, even if that 
wasn't the case, I think there's a lot to be pondered about JKR's 
presentation of Stan always being in connection with working class 
stereotypes. (I believe the resident Brits prefer "working class" to 
"lower class?" Am I correct?) 

 > There is no indication that they run it on anyone else's behalf and 
so 
> jumping to the conclusion that just because they speak non-Standard 
British 
> English, they are either stupid, untalented or uneducated in both 
the 
> magical arts and English is a sign of *reader* prejudice, not the 
Wizarding 
> World's or JKR's. That they are able to jump from Cockney to 
Standard 
> English at will is in fact a sign to the contrary, that they *are* 
educated 
> in "proper" English, and observant enough to know when it is in 
their best 
> interests to use it, such as when greeting a new passenger.

But isn't that part of the stereotype? Cockney speakers who try to 
speak "proper" English, but then fail? How come neither Stan nor Ernie 
talk "proper" English to Fudge? Again, it's not a stereotype I'm 
endorsing. But it does exist.

----------------------------

Before Harry could turn, he felt a hand on his shoulder. At the same 
time, Stan shouted, "Blimey! Ern, come 'ere! Come 'ere."

Harry looked up at the owner of the hand on his shoulder and felt a 
bucketful of ice cascade into his stomach -- he had walked right into 
Cornelius Fudge, the Minister of Magic himself.

Stan leapt onto the pavement beside them.
        
"What didja call Neville, Minister?" he said excitedly.
        
Fudge, a portly little man in a long, pinstriped cloak, looked cold 
and exhausted.
        
"Neville?" he repeated, frowning. "This is Harry Potter."
        
"I knew it!" Stan shouted gleefully. "Ern! Ern! Guess 'oo Neville is, 
Ern! 'E's 'Arry Potter! I can see 'is scar!"
        
"Yes," said Fudge testily, "well, I'm very glad the Knight Bus picked 
Harry up, but he and I need to step inside
the Leaky Cauldron now..." 

---------------------------

And talking of Fudge... Not being British, I don't have the best ear 
for this but his speech strikes me as very old-fashioned and 
undeniably upper class. 

Now, for the known backgrounds of Hogwarts students.

Muggle-born

Hermione Granger - Parents dentists.
Justin Finch-Fletchley - Down for Eton.
Colin and Dennis Creevey - Dad's a milkman.
Dean Thomas - Hails from West Ham? (Not being a Brit, I have no idea 
whether this has any signifcance)

Nothing is known of the other muggleborn students. It might be 
interesting to do a commentary on their names. Sometimes names are 
useful in telling us about Class. But it is not a task I could 
undertake, and besides, I feel the text is pretty clear on this point. 

Muggleborn students come from all different classes and backgrounds. I 
was quite aware of the connotations of Colin's Dad being a milkman. 
There is no question of Classism here. 

But let's examine the current wizard-born students. (I exclude those 
whom we know absolutely nothing about their class background.)

Wizard-born

The Malfoys - Upperclass. With a manor. A name guaranteed to summon 
shades of 1066 and All that. etc. etc. etc.
Pansy Parkinson - Quite good enough to simper about on Draco's arm. 
And does anyone want to claim the Malfoys aren't class-conscious? 
Crabbe and Goyle - Good enough for Draco's boon companions. Some 
suggestion in the text that their parents are part of Lucius Malfoy's 
circle. 
The Weasleys - Poor, but obviously an old family. Both Lucius and 
Draco talk of them as equals that have fallen to a lower level. Arthur 
Weasley works at the Department of Muggle Artefacts. Although this is 
not the heart of the action at the Ministry, he is on close terms with 
all the Ministry higher-ups. And in an emergency, he's at the heart of 
the action.
Pavarti and Padma Patil - Pansy's comment to Pavarti about Neville 
suggests that they knew each other before Hogwarts: more evidence of a 
"magic circle" in the wizarding world.
Neville Longbottom - Pureblooded. Father was a popular auror. Very 
popular. His grandmother continually chides him for not upholding the 
family's honour.
Cedric Diggory - Father works for the Department of Magical Creatures. 
Like Arthur Weasley, at the heart of the action.
Harry Potter - According to Rowling, James was independantly wealthy. 
Barty Crouch Jr. - one of the "oldest" pureblood families
Ernie Macmillan - Boasts that he can trace his family back through 
nine generations. (I've always thought Ernie was meant to be the 
wizarding equivalent of Justin. :-)

----------------------

Anyone else with a background we know anything about?

So, while you can point to the presence of the Creeveys as a basis for 
an absence of class discrimination at Hogwarts, to do so is 
fundamentally misleading. Because, while the backgrounds of the 
muggle-born students is diverse, the background of the wizarding born 
students isn't. There's nothing to say that all those other students 
don't have more diverse backgrounds. Maybe Katie Bell's Dad is Tom 
from the Leaky Cauldron, good old Tom Bell. It could be. 

But the fact remains that we have to supply this information for 
ourselves. Hogwarts may not be classist but it portrays a certain 
class exclusively. And when you take into consideration the fact that 
the school does not exist and the text does, the value of figuring out 
what must be *true* of the school pales in comparison to the value of 
figuring out how the school is presented in the text. JKR's 
class-based presentation exists. Hogwarts does not.

So, the students all have "that" sort of background. 

And now on to the Ministry of Magic, which is manned by Fudge (upper 
class), Crouch (upper class old family), Ludo Bagman (whose father was 
an old friend of August Rookwood - a posh sounding name in itself), 
and Arthur Weasley (old family). There's no evidence for the 
backgrounds of the other Ministry people, though I would be very 
surprised should Amos Diggory not conform to the model. Again, what we 
know is what's important. I'm sure it's quite possible the current 
Head of Magical Law Enforcement is Ernie Prang's brother. But the text 
shows us the Old Boys network firmly entrenched.

Eileen, who feels that there must be a lot of Elkins in this post, but 
didn't, on her word of honour, look up those old posts and plagiarize 
them