[HPforGrownups] Re: Harry's Friends

[Carol Bainbridge]

No: HPFGUIDX 43787


>Amanda wrote:

>I agree. Hermione's lack of outside friendship at Hogwarts almost seems to be
>serving as a facet of her personality - like she's so bossy and know-it-all
>that very few students can stand her. The few main relationships we get to
>see that involve Hermione are the trio, Hagrid, the Weasleys and strangely,
>Draco. <snip>

 From my experience, it's not unusual for bossy, know-it-all types to have 
few friends, especially close friends.  Even Ron and Harry most likely 
would not have befriended her had they not all shared the experience with 
the troll in the girls' bathroom.  Even so, I can't recall any evidence to 
suggest anyone other than Ron couldn't stand Hermione.  Snape doesn't seem 
to care for her, but he's a teacher and not likely to be her friend 
anyway.  Some of it, I think, is the know-it-all letting her hair down long 
enough to let people get close.  Hermione did that in the girls' bathroom 
when she lied for Ron and Harry.  That gave both Ron and Harry a chance to 
see another part of Hermione that they could be friends with.  On 
Hermione's part, she could certainly see that Ron and Harry were both brave 
and concerned enough about her to risk their lives to save her.  That would 
certainly open a person up to friendship.

Amanda continues:
><snip> And Mrs. Weasley, although she apologises, almost turns against
>her in GoF when Rita Skeeter writes her newsarticle about Hermione dumping
>Harry, prompting a feeling from me that Mrs. Weasley, when it comes to
>Hermione, is very much in the same boat as Hagrid - that without her son and
>Harry as buffers, there probably wouldn't be much there.

I didn't like it when Mrs. Weasley turned on Hermione.  On one level it was 
rather humorous, but I didn't like what it said about Mrs. Weasley.  On the 
other hand, I think Molly knows Harry better than she knows Hermione, Harry 
having spent more time with the Weasleys than Hermione has.  Also, I'm sure 
Molly feels more protective toward Harry than toward Hermione since Harry 
lost his parents while Hermione still has hers.

Amanda again:
>  Then there's Draco - <snip>  It would be hard to
>argue that their encounters weren't interesting - what with name-calling and
>slapping and threats - but its hardly substantial. Still, it's the closest
>she has to an outside relationship, romantic or not!

I don't know that I'd call what Hermione and Draco have as a relationship 
myself.  They interact, but one can interact with even strangers.  But be 
that as it may, I think Hermione's encounters with Malfoy tell us a great 
deal about Hermione's growth, development and personality.  In the 
bathroom/troll scene, we are shocked to hear Hermione lie to 
teachers.  Whether it is justified under the circumstances or not is, I 
think, a separate issue.  It does tell us something about her, though.  We 
see more and more of what lies beneath the surface with Hermione and it 
seems to me that her encounters with Draco give us a glimpse of the inner 
Hermione, the non-know-it-all.

More Amanda:
>Okay, okay I think I have a point - for a girl who seems so knowledgeble and
>confident in her studies, Hermione seems to be extremely shy and unassured.

I'm having a hard time seeing Hermione as shy.  I could go along with the 
unassured part, but I can't think of any evidence to suggest she is 
shy.  Quite the contrary.

Amanda:
>With that said, I think GoF was without a doubt the Age of Hermione, with the
>realisation that a boy (Krum) might find her attractive, Ron may have a thing
>for her (which ever way you look at it) and, of course, the infamous kiss on
>the last page. Maybe she is realising that there are people outside of Ron
>and Harry (in shape of Ginny and even Krum) and that she is an important part
>in Ron and Harry's lives, regardless of their constant snipes at each other
>or fights.

I definitely would agree that Hermione is beginning to develop outside of 
the sphere of the trio.  How much of this, though, is typical adolescent 
development?  I would hope that a 14 year old girl would start realizing 
that there are people outside her circle of friends and that the importance 
may be different.

Amanda goes on:
>Hermione, I think, in the next books will grow out of her shyness
>and really step forth as a force at Hogwarts. JKR can't keep painting this
>picture of a feisty, saucy bookworm who is both emotionally and socially
>stunted - it just doesn't work.

Interesting.  Of course, as I said, I don't think Hermione is shy.  I don't 
think I would exactly call her emotionally or socially stunted either.  I 
can't think of any evidence that shows her to be emotionally stunted 
especially.  For example, I think the scene in PP/SP after the chess game, 
when Hermione tells Harry he's a great wizard shows her to be emotionally 
sophisticated.  Now she may often hide her feelings (and I don't really 
think even that's necessarily true), but that doesn't make her emotionally 
stunted.  There may be a better argument for her being socially stunted, 
but I'm more likely to say that she has developed some behaviors that are 
not conducive to foster closeness with peers.  To me, "stunted" means that 
a person has stopped developing at some point and I just don't see that 
with Hermione. \

I agree that Hermione can't remain the exact same kind of person, but then 
I would hope all the young characters would start changing in some 
ways.  If they all remain exactly as they started out, I'd be very 
disappointed.  People change quite a bit from age 11 to 17.  Their core 
personality may remain the same, but their behaviors and attitudes can 
certainly change.  I think Hermione has been changing already in GoF, more 
so than any of the other younger characters.

Carol,
whose linguistic background causes her to constantly question word meanings