[HPforGrownups] Sirius Black-What a Guy!

[Carol Bainbridge]

No: HPFGUIDX 44286


>Marcus said:
>    As to Sirius, I have a serious problem (no pun intended) with his
>    temper.  Slashing up the Fat Lady was just pathetic.  <snip>
>    Seeking to take the law into his own hands with
>    Petigrew is not the trait of somebody I want to get to know.

Then Christie said:

>I completely agree, for Carol's post, I think both these cases are evidense
>to the passionate and "living on the edge" aspect of of Sirius personality.

Perhaps we don't see "living on the edge" in the same way.  To me, "living 
on the edge" means to take great risks, often in order to feel alive.  I 
don't see this quality in Sirius at all.  I see the passion, though.

Christie again:
>Why in the world would someone who wants to eventually clear his name,
>violently slash a painting when you couldn't get what you want?

Maybe I'm forgetting something in the book, but I don't recall that 
clearing his name was Sirius' original goal.  II thought he was basically 
out to get Pettigrew.  Also, I'm in the camp with those who aren't going to 
dwell on the slashing of the painting to illustrate a personality 
characteristic.  For one thing, it was a plot necessity.  Second, and more 
importantly, we weren't witnesses to the actual slashing, so we don't  know 
what Sirius' state of mind was or exactly how he went about it.  We only 
know of it second hand as it is described, when everyone believed an 
escaped convict was trying to get inside in order to kill Harry.  Maybe the 
description would have been different had the assumption been 
different.  Sure it would be the same event, but the words chosen to 
describe and event can often color the way we see the event, and the people 
involved in it.

Christie once more:
>This is not
>something that a rational innocent person would do.  Seems to me that Sirius
>didn't exactly think before he slashed.  Much the same way as a small child
>acts w/o thinking the consequences through.

I don't know.  We really don't know what Sirius was doing when he slashed 
the painting.  He may have been quite rational, trying to scare the Fat 
Lady, not hurt her.  How else was he going to get inside if the Fat Lady 
wouldn't let him in?  Go see Dumbledor to get the password?  I think the 
scene was described as it was precisely for us to believe that the 
perpetrator was a desperate criminal trying to get his way.  But to use it 
to attribute other characteristics like irrationality to Sirius is, IMO, 
more than is warranted.

More Christie:
>And I am sorry, but the last thing Sirius wants for Peter is justice.

I don't think I explained myself very well.  I was trying to link what I 
saw as a sense of justice in Sirius with Sirius' behavior toward 
Pettigrew.  I didn't mean to say that there wasn't more to it than that.

>His
>motivation, and I can't say I don't see where he coming from here, is
>revenge.  Pure and simple revenge.  Not only just revenge for himself, but
>for Lily, James and Harry.  Justice for Peter would be being brought up in
>front of a trial and carted off to Azkaban.

Depends on your idea of justice.  Some people would say that justice is 
getting what you deserve.  That does not necessarily mean that you go to 
court and get tried.  We like to think that's justice, but it is quite 
possible for Sirius to believe that justice would be served if Pettigrew 
had to pay for his crime.  Justice means balance.  What is just is what is 
fair.  What is fair for Pettigrew is, again, for him to pay for his 
crime.  I don't think Black had much faith that he would be able to haul 
Peter into wizard court.  Look at Snape's reaction to Black.  Personal or 
not, he was still quite willing to see Sirius executed on the spot.  If I 
were Black, I wouldn't think I'd be able to walk into the wizard equivalent 
of Scotland Yard and report on Pettigrew.  I agree that Sirius wants 
revenge, but I also think that he wants to see justice done-- balance.

Christie continued:
>Again, Siriur didn't think
>through his situation.  By killing Peter, he would indeed be guilty of
>murder, putting him right back at square one.

What square one?  He's already seen as guilty.  His sole purpose in 
escaping from Azkaban (unless I'm misremembering, which is certainly 
possible) was to kill Pettigrew, to commit the crime he had been imprisoned 
for.  He did not escape to catch Pettigrew and clear his name.  It wasn't 
until later when he was talked out of killing Peter that he began to think 
he could clear his name and take Harry in.

More Christie:
>How could he care for Harry if
>he was shipped right back to Azkaban for truly murdering Peter.

But he didn't ask Harry to live with him until later.  That had not been 
his original intention, so there was nothing to think through.

Christie:
>And keep in
>mind that it is essential to have Peter alive so the whole story can work
>itself out at a trial.

Isn't that where the idea of clearing his Black's name came from?  Isn't 
that part of how Sirius was talked into letting Peter live?

Christie:
>Another little aspect of Sirius' personality proving his passionate nature is
>his treatment of Snape.  I cannot believe in my heart that Sirius wanted to
>kill Snape.  He was merely playing a "school-boy" prank.  Good ole Sirius
>just was the short term benefits of his little joke.  The long term
>consequence being that Snape is dead.  Fortunatly for Sirius, James is
>pragmatic enough to rescue Snape before something dire happens.

I have to admit I was really appalled by this prank.  It's hard to make 
excuses for it.  I don't believe either that the goal was to get Snape 
killed.  But like many school pranks, it was short-sighted and potentially 
dangerous.  (Like the ones college kids play with drugs and alcohol -- 
stupid)  However, I see it more of an illustration of the depth of the 
animosity between them than a characteristic of Sirius.

Christie:
>But I think there are many who would agree
>that Sirius is not without his faults.

I would agree with that.  He'd be a rather flat character if he were perfect!


Carol Bainbridge
(kaityf at jorsm.com)

http://www.lcag.org